# I pit Fox News' Andrew Napolitano for his really stupid statement on the Civil War and slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251 "2014-02-25T20:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/61 "2014-02-26T16:39:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Except this wasn’t true. Everyone, including Lincoln, said that they had no intention of ending slavery nationwide. (The abolitionists even ran a candidate against Lincoln because he was “soft” on slavery.) The Republicans said they had no intention of ending slavery in states where it was already legal. They even offered to enact a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the ongoing legality of slavery so no future law could abolish it. They did say that early on, yes. Politics is the art of the possible, and they couldn’t succeed if they pushed too fast, too hard. But the Republicans were still founded on the principle of opposing slavery, and it would be unrealistic to think they’d ever stop short of full abolition. But _tariffs_, Napolitano? Really? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/62 "2014-02-26T16:47:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, always nice to hear the voice of moderation… > > The problem with what happened was that the devastation of the South led to long-lasting resentment. It would have been easier to bring them forward to a more civilized outlook if they weren’t poisonously bitter. My belief is that there would be resentment anyways. A hundred years after slavery was officially over there was still seething hatred and resentment. These aren’t people who lived through the times, or had actual slaves themselves, but those who idealized a South that was all belles and gentlemen. I have no doubt that had slavery been voluntarily given up (which would have been pretty much impossible), there would still be those who claimed they were forced to give it up by the dastardly North. The South got the biggest asskicking any group of states ever did in the history of the US but if you look at how history was romanticized, you’d think they were the victors. They needed to be taught a lesson. They needed to be told what was right because as Stewart pointed out in the piece, they weren’t going to do this voluntarily. **ALL** arguments about how we should have done this differently ignores the reality that there was no way to end slavery except through war, the South was that racist and hateful ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/63 "2014-02-26T17:09:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They did say that early on, yes. Politics is the art of the possible, and they couldn’t succeed if they pushed too fast, too hard. But the Republicans were still founded on the principle of opposing slavery, and it would be unrealistic to think they’d ever stop short of full abolition. But how would full abolition have ever been possible is the slave states had stayed in the union and resisted abolition legally? Especially is the Corwin amendment had given slavery Constitutional protection. And it’s not true that all Republicans were abolitionists. The Republicans were opposed to the expansion of slavery but it wasn’t always linked to a concern for the slaves. Some Republicans didn’t want slavery to be expanded into the western territories because they wanted to keep black people, slave or free, out. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/64 "2014-02-26T17:09:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But this wasn’t enough for the southern fire-eaters. They didn’t want to just protect slavery in their own states; they insisted the federal government had to protect it throughout the country - even in states that didn’t want slavery. Yup. They acted like spoiled children. Running their own candidate (and thus splitting the Democratic vote) just shows how much they refused to compromise on anything. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/65 "2014-02-26T17:30:10Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > It’s a pity the non-slave-owning Southerners who fought & then came home to an impoverished South were not encouraged to put the blame on the slave masters who started the catastrophe. It was the state legislatures that voted to leave the Union, not the nasty slave owners. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/66 "2014-02-26T17:33:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It was the state legislatures that voted to leave the Union, not the nasty slave owners. > 🙂 Yeah, I’m sure there was no overlap between those two groups. Solid point. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/67 "2014-02-26T17:34:35Z")
Smiting pending. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/68 "2014-02-26T18:17:14Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It was the state legislatures that voted to leave the Union, not the nasty slave owners. > 🙂 The slave masters were the rich & powerful. They used their power. And exempted some slave owners from the draft. It’s too bad the poor whites were taught to blame the Yankees & the former slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/69 "2014-02-26T18:20:33Z")
When I think of the topic “how do we view the Confederacy,” I think “through Hollywood, of course.” And right from the start, from _Birth of a Nation_, through _Gone With the Wind_ and, curiously, even during the Civil Rights Era (with the exception of Blaxploitation movies on the margins of the audience), Hollywood has always chosen a sympathetic view of the CSA. What’s up with that shit? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/70 "2014-02-26T18:25:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yeah, I’m sure there was no overlap between those two groups. Solid point. You guys are a tough crowd. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/71 "2014-02-26T18:32:45Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > When I think of the topic “how do we view the Confederacy,” I think “through Hollywood, of course.” > > And right from the start, from _Birth of a Nation_, through _Gone With the Wind_ and, curiously, even during the Civil Rights Era (with the exception of Blaxploitation movies on the margins of the audience), Hollywood has always chosen a sympathetic view of the CSA. > > What’s up with that shit? Golden era Hollywood; the last hold out of “Slavepower.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/72 "2014-02-26T18:56:09Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > My belief is that there would be resentment anyways. A hundred years after slavery was officially over there was still seething hatred and resentment. The South’s greatest tragedy, second only to the Civil War itself, was the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. It would have only been Lincoln with the political fortitude and acumen to hold back the frothing retribution that was unleashed with his death. Andrew Johnson was a pitiable substitute. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/73 "2014-02-26T19:01:47Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > The South’s greatest tragedy, second only to the Civil War itself, was the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. It would have only been Lincoln with the political fortitude and acumen to hold back the frothing retribution that was unleashed with his death. Andrew Johnson was a pitiable substitute. Indeed, and Johnson was from Tennessee, part of the hated South. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/74 "2014-02-26T21:02:06Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Yeah, but it’s usually a comedy show that does not rebut claims made by idiots with spurious responses. > > The proper rebuttal to Andrew Napolitano’s claim that Lincoln should have tried compensated emancipation is some combination of (a) he DID try it (which in fact they do also bring up), (b) it’s morally repugnant or (c) the US government didn’t have enough money (or (d) something else relating to the actual history of the situation). Instead they went with a superficially clever rebuttal which in fact falls apart instantly. > > Things Jon Stewart says are usually either basically reasonable (and often funny), or very very clearly just silly jokes, this fell into an awkward middle ground. I heard them make both of those points. But the other one is reasonable. I don’t recall reading about the smuggling of slaves into the US after importation. I’d think breeding them would be cheaper. However, if forced sales reduced the number of slaves, and if slavery were still legal, I’d suspect a big smuggling industry would begin, since the demand would still be there. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/75 "2014-02-26T21:03:43Z")
I read all three of Shelby Foote’s The Civil War: A Narrative and I lost count of the number of southern people and times in speech and written letters northern aggression was equated with slavery for white southerners. This wasn’t just invective and it was never with any shred of irony. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/76 "2014-02-26T21:11:04Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I lost count of the number of southern people and times in speech and written letters northern aggression was equated with slavery for white southerners. I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/77 "2014-02-26T21:18:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :smack: No, no, that was the **Jews!** How obvious did they have to make it – they kept shouting, “Torah! Torah! Torah!” Forget it, he’s on a roll. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/78 "2014-02-26T23:15:22Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t understand. Southern white people believed enslavement was terrible, their enslavement, which is what would happen if the North won, so their cause was just. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/79 "2014-02-26T23:50:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I particularly wonder about Texas, having so recently left being an independent country and becoming a state. “Perhaps this wasn’t such a good idea, fellows. We will just opt out.” > It must have been like joining a club, and finding that it had something you found repugnant, but they threaten you with violence if you try to leave. > 🙂 :dubious: Texas joined the US in part because Mexico forbade slavery as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/80 "2014-02-26T23:51:09Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Southern white people believed enslavement was terrible, their enslavement, which is what would happen if the North won, so their cause was just. Not even the dumbest Arkansan would believe that. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251.md?page=5)