# I pit Fox News' Andrew Napolitano for his really stupid statement on the Civil War and slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251 "2014-02-25T20:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/141 "2014-03-12T22:11:42Z")
I saw it, I would like to read more of the Judge’s opinions, but it sounds like revisionist history. I know I’m not adding anything to the conversation by saying that, but meh. Also, I enjoyed point 2 of this cracked article. > **[Civil War Myths Everyone Believes That Are Total B.S](https://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html)** > > We might be going out on a limb here, but we're guessing that most of our readers aren't hardcore Civil War historians. And since VH-1 discontinued their series before they got around to the 1860s, a lot of us are walking around with Civil War... The south never had a chance. They had about 5.6 million free people and 3.5 million slaves. The north had 22 million free people and half a million slaves. The north had a much higher GDP, twice as many soldiers (despite only pulling half as many out of the free population), better diplomatic ties (no other nation even recognized the confederacy). Yay us, this is one of the handful of reasons I’m proud of my home state (which fought in the union). The real question is why are the right wingers rewriting history about this now. Was slavery on the way out in the 19th century? Yes. Many nations (as well as virtually every northern state) voluntarily abolished slavery in the first half of the 19th century. But the south’s economy worked with slavery, and their culture promoted it. After slavery was abolished the south just re-instituted different forms as sharecropping, vagrancy laws, etc. The real question is when would the south have voluntarily abolished slavery if it had not been forced on them? I would guess the early 20th century. Keep in mind that a lot of mideastern nations didn’t abolish slavery until the 20th century. So that practice did (and does still) exist even though it is de jure illegal in most places. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/142 "2014-03-12T22:15:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The south never had a chance. They had about 5.6 million free people and 3.5 million slaves. The north had 22 million free people and half a million slaves. The north had a much higher GDP, twice as many soldiers (despite only pulling half as many out of the free population), better diplomatic ties (no other nation even recognized the confederacy). Yay us, this is one of the handful of reasons I’m proud of my home state (which fought in the union). Well . . . The South never had a chance **so long as the Union was determined to win.** But, remember, George Washington won the American Revolution just by keeping the war going and going and going until the British lost the political will to keep fighting it – and they could have kept fighting it if they wanted to, even after Yorktown. Lee might conceivably have done that, public opinion in the North was always divided on the war. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/143 "2014-03-12T22:26:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The real question is why are the right wingers rewriting history about this now. Some people have believed this stuff for decades. What’s new, I think, is that their views are getting more popular as the Republican Party moves further and further to the right. The right is as hostile to civil rights and government as it has been in maybe 40 or 50 years, so they need a view of history that says government intervention in anything at any point is bad and unnecessary. So here you have a “libertarian” view that says slavery was bad, but it would have gone away peacefully on its own and greedy, tariff-mad Lincoln chose war to dominate white people in the South. It’s a proxy for what they’re saying about health insurance, and also what they’re saying about voting rights and all sorts of other rights as they work to eliminate all the laws protecting them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/144 "2014-03-12T22:37:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The real question is when would the south have voluntarily abolished slavery if it had not been forced on them? I would guess the early 20th century. Keep in mind that a lot of mideastern nations didn’t abolish slavery until the 20th century. So that practice did (and does still) exist even though it is de jure illegal in most places. Once they could buy John Deere, they would figure out that they were throwing money away keeping many slaves. Whether they would have taught the remaining to drive a tractor is another question. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/145 "2014-03-13T00:16:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Once they could buy John Deere, they would figure out that they were throwing money away keeping many slaves. And then the only things keeping slavery alive would have been the remaining economic niches plus white supremacy and emulation of the very rich… all of which are extremely powerful. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/146 "2014-03-13T00:28:20Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Listen, I spent a lot of time listening to the other side’s talking points. Years of listening to Sean and O’Reilly and others on the radio (pizza man’s got a lot of time on his hands in a car, with a radio, and a lack of interest in the music stations), and then I went out and bought the books written by political commentators from all different political viewpoints, and watched the TV programs. > > I’m not alone. There are conservatives and Republicans who do seek out programming which is liberal in order to get what the other side is thinking. I think I see a problem. People may seek out viewpoints from the other side, and that’s good, but they probably seek out the most extreme of them, or the loudest. That’s not going to help either side. The middle - where convincing and compromising happens - gets lost. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/147 "2014-03-13T01:44:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And then the only things keeping slavery alive would have been the remaining economic niches plus white supremacy and emulation of the very rich… all of which are extremely powerful. You don’t give up about something that happened 150 years ago, do you? I don’t understand “remaining economic niches” or “emulation of the very rich”, although I presume “white supremacy” means kicking African Americans around. That was done for quite a while after the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/148 "2014-03-13T04:11:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: How cluelessly out-of-touch of them! It’s all **meth** now! Given the penchant for ancestor fawning I’m surprised they aren’t having ether sniffing parties. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/149 "2014-03-13T04:19:21Z")
If the Civil War had not happened then I suspect slavery levels would have dropped dramatically during the Boll Weevil infestations of the early 20th century. This would not have been any altruism on the part of the Southerners, but rather more a bunch of plantation owners going bankrupt, far too fixed in their ways to change crops, and just deciding to cut losses by not feeding all those mouths. I suspect a lot of now freed slaves may well have starved to death in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/150 "2014-03-13T05:19:01Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > If the Civil War had not happened then I suspect slavery levels would have dropped dramatically during the Boll Weevil infestations of the early 20th century. This would not have been any altruism on the part of the Southerners, but rather more a bunch of plantation owners going bankrupt, far too fixed in their ways to change crops, and just deciding to cut losses by not feeding all those mouths. > > I suspect a lot of now freed slaves may well have starved to death in the process. The South attracted a lot of industry, like textile mills, with good access to raw materials and low wages. Think of what would have happened if the plantation owners sunk their money into factories and moved their slaves into them to work even more cheaply than immigrants. Then we’d have a kind of minimum wage argument - free and pay the slaves, but you’ll have to pay more for your knickers. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/151 "2014-03-13T13:27:16Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its not often I say this but I wish the South were more like the Germans Well, they both really like guns, sausages, and beer. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/152 "2014-03-13T13:58:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But does the message get received? People who watch MSNBC already think these anti-gay laws are bullshit, and people who think Lincoln was an evil dictator who hated the white man don’t watch The Daily Show. Sure they do. How else are they going to keep their (p)outrage at the Evil Librul Meedya fresh? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/153 "2014-03-13T14:00:01Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, they both really like guns, sausages, and beer. Submitted without comment, but with an emerging craving: > [@](#): > > The origin of the Chicken-Fried Steak probably comes from the German people who settled in Texas from 1844 to 1850. As Wiener Schnitzel is a popular German dish that is made from veal, and because veal was never popular in Texas and beef was, the German immigrants probably adapted their popular dish to use the tougher cuts of beef available to them. > **[Chicken Fried Steak History and Recipe](https://whatscookingamerica.net/beef/chickenfriedsteak.htm)** > > In Texas, the reigning queen of comfort food or down-home cooking is Chicken-Fried Steak, or as Texans affectionately call it CFS.  Every city, town, and village in Texas takes prides P.S. what crappy grammar. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/154 "2014-03-13T15:03:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some people have believed this stuff for decades. What’s new, I think, is that their views are getting more popular as the Republican Party moves further and further to the right. The right is as hostile to civil rights and government as it has been in maybe 40 or 50 years, so they need a view of history that says government intervention in anything at any point is bad and unnecessary. So here you have a “libertarian” view that says slavery was bad, but it would have gone away peacefully on its own and greedy, tariff-mad Lincoln chose war to dominate white people in the South. It’s a proxy for what they’re saying about health insurance, and also what they’re saying about voting rights and all sorts of other rights as they work to eliminate all the laws protecting them. Yeah, I’ve heard from those Confederate apologists, growing up in Texas. But they were always a minority–most of us are relative newcomers whose people weren’t here yet. Among those whose families _do_ go back that far–we’ve got plenty of outspoken folks whose ancestors were considered property. In school, we learned the basic history that Napolitano ignores. He just doesn’t fit the pattern–some old fart droning on in a Foghorn Leghorn accent about The War of Northern Aggression. Napolitano is a new recruit. He doesn’t have the flimsy excuse of being brought up in a family looking back at imagined glories on the old Plantation. He lies for money & Jon Stewart was far more polite than I would have been. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/155 "2014-03-13T15:36:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some people have believed this stuff for decades. What’s new, I think, is that their views are getting more popular as the Republican Party moves further and further to the right. The right is as hostile to civil rights and government as it has been in maybe 40 or 50 years, so they need a view of history that says government intervention in anything at any point is bad and unnecessary. So here you have a “libertarian” view that says slavery was bad, but it would have gone away peacefully on its own and greedy, tariff-mad Lincoln chose war to dominate white people in the South. It’s a proxy for what they’re saying about health insurance, and also what they’re saying about voting rights and all sorts of other rights as they work to eliminate all the laws protecting them. At least they haven’t reached the point of denying that Lincoln was a Republican. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/156 "2014-03-13T15:38:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At least they haven’t reached the point of denying that Lincoln was a Republican. > > Yet. I can already see the Fox chyron “Abraham Lincoln (D-IL)” in my mind’s eye. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/157 "2014-03-14T17:59:46Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I can already see the Fox chyron “Abraham Lincoln (D-IL)” in my mind’s eye. I’m not sure too many modern day Democrats would object. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/158 "2014-03-14T18:01:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not sure too many modern day Democrats would object. Hell yeah, we’ll take Abe. We’ll even take his log cabin. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/159 "2014-03-14T18:37:40Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I can already see the Fox chyron “Abraham Lincoln (D-IL)” in my mind’s eye. If it would stop today’s “_We’re_ not the racists, \*they \*are!” Republicans from claiming to be “The Party of Lincoln”, that would be fine with me. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251/160 "2014-03-14T19:15:31Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Every time I see Napolitano, and hear him open his mouth, I sit in awe that anyone would listen to the man and not consider him a crackpot who eats his own underwear and showers in transmission fluid. Well, that is one explanation for his weight loss and hair color 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-fox-news-andrew-napolitano-for-his-really-stupid-statement-on-the-civil-war-and-slavery/682251.md?page=9)