# I Pit GOP "voting reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180 "2011-09-04T19:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/281 "2011-09-08T01:57:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, see, _mon cher Curli_, its just that idea of “importing” illegal aliens to some nefarious lefty goal. Don’t be an idiot. You are the only one going on about “importing” anyone. It was merely pointed out that the Democrats have a history of wanting to give illegals citizenship because they apparently vote Democratic for the most part. I don’t know if that’s true, but it has been true here in Mexico Norte it has been the liberals who don’t see anything wrong with adding a bazillion citizens to an already very overcrowded area. > [@](#): > > Have I a bias? Yeah, sure, plead guilty, get it over with. But a blind bias? Yes. It also appears that you have been drinking since you aren’t making much sense. > [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I don’t get it. Because some people are saying that cynical and opportunistic Republican politicians are passing laws designed to disenfranchise potential Democratic voters, we must therefore accept as equally credible a hypothesis that Democrats have engaged in a 50 year long campaign to flood the USA with millions of pinkos? Because it’s axiomatic that both sides are equally bad? > > Is that it? Or, well, what? Yes, both sides are equally bad. No, the Democrats have not been actively trying to get people to enter the US illegally, they are just happy to reap the benefit, sometimes to the detriment of people who are actually citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/282 "2011-09-08T02:01:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Who said anything about hordes of unwashed latinos? :dubious: Simply making it sound more dramatic. Lighten up Clyde. You’ll give yourself a condition. > [@](#): > > Election times are well known. If you can’t save up enough dough in the two to four years before the election that you know is going to take place in order to get a photo ID, then how are you paying for rent and clothing and food in the meantime? Plus you can use that photo ID to prove you’re old enough to buy booze and tobaccy! > [@](#): > > The notion that it’s impossible for people to afford a photo ID is nonsense. What you are basically saying is _“Hey, here’s this group of ne’er do wells and miscreants who will vote for us because they know we’ll take money from other people and give it to them, so let’s get out there and make sure they get to the polls so they can vote for us.”_ You really find the worst way to phrase things. Plus this is almost entirely stupid. Sounds like a rant rejected by both Limbaugh and Hannity. You’re like the Family Guy of right wing talking points. Wait. That’s still too original. You’re the American Dad…you know what? That’s still too good, but you’re way too white for The Cleveland Show so I guess we’re stuck with it. You’re the American Dad of right wing talking points. > [@](#): > > Then the Pubbies see what you’re up to, and, knowing that these people nonetheless are entitled to vote if they want to provided they can do so legally, decide that at the very least they can try to limit the damage by making sure that the only people who vote are…wait for it…people who are legally entitled to do so! > > What a concept! Except you forgot to mention the one problem that all of us seem to have: needing to pay to vote. Smacks of poll tax. Plus this concept of vast crime waves of electoral fraud are just as ludicrous as requiring an ID as a means of election theft. > [@](#): > > Alas, most attempts to make sure people do things legally are anathema to the left, and so the poor Pubbies get called names and have their motives impugned, and inflammatory things they never said get attributed to them, all because they don’t want people voting for the other side who aren’t entitled to do so. The idea that you can pillory the left for impugning motives and insulting the right in the same paragraph as accusing the left of hating all things legal literally blows my mind. Thankfully I put on a helmet before I read your posts just in case. Keeps most things right where they should be. Sure there’s a bit of leakage of gray matter, but that’s mostly the stuff I’ve killed off with booze anyways. > [@](#): > > You guys have such a horrendous record when it comes to playing fair, is it any wonder that the other side wants to make damn sure you’re doing things honestly? Damn those lefties for calling Pubbies mean names and impugning motives! > [@](#): > > I think not. Easy jokes already been taken here. 'Luci already got to it. He’s just so fast… ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/283 "2011-09-08T02:24:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Yes, both sides are equally bad. No, the Democrats have not been actively trying to get people to enter the US illegally, they are just happy to reap the benefit, sometimes to the detriment of people who are actually citizens. Well, see, it’s just that **Hyperelastic** said: > [@](#): > > Fiddling around with voting laws is small beer, maybe 1-2% difference at most. It is nothing compared to 50 million left-leaning immigrants (legal and illegal) brought in at the urging of Democrats in the last 50 years. Millions are now voting citizens and millions more are in a pipeline that the Democrats would dearly love to blow clean open and flood the electorate with lots and lots of left-wing immigrants. Even Democrats themselves can’t stop talking about how demographics are working in their favor. That was no natural phenomenon, nor was it all about diversity and humanitarianism; if you think it was, you also are naive and uninitiated. **Democrats knew the existing population would never go for their harebrained schemes, so they imported a bunch of people who would.** Bolding mine. Now, I realise those were not your words, but they _were_ the words I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/284 "2011-09-08T02:26:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You guys have such a horrendous record when it comes to playing fair, is it any wonder that the other side wants to make damn sure you’re doing things honestly? Excuse me while I laugh very, very hard. [AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA](http://liesofbush.com/2000election.shtml) Yes, I’m aware that’s not the best source… That said, I’m also well-aware that the electoral fraud in 2000 was starkly apparent and well-documented. The _democrats_ don’t play fair? You mean rousing those who often are to apathetic to vote to partake in their constitutional liberties? Or wait… Judging from the rest of your post… You mean letting the _poor_ vote. **Starving Artist** , let me make something very, _very_ clear here. **The poor are still citizens. They still have constitutional rights just like anyone else. They still have the ability to pursue the mandates they support, regardless of what you think of them**. Whether or not the poor have a mandate that helps america or not does not matter. Whether or not you _approve_ of said mandate _does not matter_. Whether or not that mandate is socialist/communist/END OF THE WORLD _ **DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER** _. They still have the right to make their voices heard. > [@](#): > > Election times are well known. If you can’t save up enough dough in the two to four years before the election that you know is going to take place in order to get a photo ID, then how are you paying for rent and clothing and food in the meantime? > > The notion that it’s impossible for people to afford a photo ID is nonsense. What you are basically saying is _“Hey, here’s this group of ne’er do wells and miscreants who will vote for us because they know we’ll take money from other people and give it to them, so let’s get out there and make sure they get to the polls so they can vote for us.”_ “Never do wells”? Starving Artist, have you ever been poor? Like, _really_ poor. Like, [this poor](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/). No? Then _shut up_. I personally have not been either, so I cannot speak for that, but I can say this: photo IDs are not quite as easy to get for the poor as you would imagine. I can’t speak from the inside, but let’s just imagine the logistics… Imagine you work two jobs just to get by. This obviously takes up _most_ of the time in your day. Any remaining time is spent hopefully eating or sleeping (2 full-time jobs = 16 hours, leaving only 8 hours to do literally anything else, not counting transit). Not that you live comfortably working 16 hours a day; you live under the poverty line anyways (as many Americans do). Now imagine that the closest DMV is, say, 10 miles away. Gas costs money. You may or may not have a car. Getting an ID at the DMV costs money. And of course, just going to the DMV and waiting for hours in line costs you time that, as a poor, barely-managing citizen, _you simply do not have_. Hell, just to make this very clear: you say it yourself that the democrats “make sure” that these people can vote. You know why carpools and busses are necessary at times for such situations? Because these people can often barely afford the time to go to the polling station at all! And yet it should be absolutely no problem for them to get a photo ID. Yeah, of course. And that’s ignoring the fact that it goes beyond just photo IDs… some people are [actively closing DMVs in democratic areas](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830?page=3). Yeah, this _totally_ is just a coincidence. But wait, there’s more! > [@](#): > > Then the Pubbies see what you’re up to, and, knowing that these people nonetheless are entitled to vote if they want to provided they can do so legally, decide that at the very least they can try to limit the damage by making sure that the only people who vote are…wait for it…people who are legally entitled to do so! > > What a concept! You know what? Under certain conditions, I would agree with you. I would agree that these recent laws were a good idea, and that it really was a step in the right direction. After all, it is kind of a big deal that each person only vote once, right? Yeah, under certain conditions, I would agree that such tightening is a good idea. You know what those conditions would be? _VOTER FRAUD **MAKING A FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!** _ It’s been said over and over and over and can’t be said enough: voter fraud _is negligible_. For all intents and purposes, it will not matter in the slightest. There were what, an average of three cases per state in 2008? OH MY GOD CALL IN THE ARMED GUARD! But instead, we find it a good idea to, in order to make sure those few cases cease (remember, it’s basically _completely negligible_), make suffrage _that_ much more difficult for an already disenfranchised demographic. And excuse me for calling a partisan bullshit ploy when the people doing this are republicans, and those disenfranchised by this bill overwhelmingly vote democrat. SA, you are so full of shit it’s not even funny. Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/285 "2011-09-08T02:32:38Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Don’t be an idiot. You are the only one going on about “importing” anyone. … It was a quote. Last sentence, post #258. > [@](#): > > …Democrats knew the existing population would never go for their harebrained schemes, so they _imported_ a bunch of people who would… (emphasis mine) Rave on. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/286 "2011-09-08T03:30:52Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Well, see, it’s just that **Hyperelastic** said: > > Bolding mine. > > Now, I realise those were not your words, but they _were_ the words I was responding to. Damn, I thought I went back far enough to see if “importing” had actually been used, but obviously I didn’t. Sigh. I rather doubt that **Hyperelastic** meant that in the literal sense tho. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/287 "2011-09-08T03:56:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Damn, I thought I went back far enough to see if “importing” had actually been used, but obviously I didn’t. Sigh… _Egostist te absolvo_. Go, and sin no more. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/288 "2011-09-08T04:14:02Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/07/wisc-dept-of-transportation-official-orders-workers-not-to-offer-voter-ids/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/07/wisc-dept-of-transportation-official-orders-workers-not-to-offer-voter-ids/) The idea that Repubs are trying to make elections safe from fraud is bullshit. Here is Walker from Wisc. specifically telling DMV workers that they should not tell, people they can have a voter ID for free. There were supposed to be signs telling customers that the ID was available. And just to keep it all fair, Walker tried to eliminate 16 DMV offices in poorer neighborhoods. Anyone who can not see what the intent is ,is BSing. This is voter repression . ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/289 "2011-09-08T04:41:21Z")
Stop being fucking stupid. State IDs cost money. Requiring people to pay money to vote is called a poll tax. Poll taxes are not only wrong, but unconstitutional. If you do not understand this shit, do us a favor and stop posting here. There is nothing that a grade school dropout can teach us. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/290 "2011-09-08T04:45:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > None of those other things are Constitutional rights. It’s not a Constitutional right to vote without proving your identity. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/291 "2011-09-08T04:50:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > And if you think that through, requiring presentation of a state-issued document it costs $10 to get is unconstitutional, whether they call it a poll tax receipt or a picture ID. (24th Amendment) IIRC, every state that passed the requirement for picture ID to vote also included in the law making issuing such IDs free for those who cannot afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/292 "2011-09-08T05:44:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s not a Constitutional right to vote without proving your identity. [Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0G01zbHGM8) of a woman in Wisconsin trying to get her son a voter ID card (I presume he is 18 so doing it for the first time). In Wisconsin they need to see bank activity. There is NO defined criteria. The person at the DMV can decide what is enough. The kid is 18 so not a lot of bank activity. If you are a student just coming to Wisconsin you are not likely to have bank activity in Wisconsin. Never mind that the Supreme Court determined that students have a right to vote where they go to school ([SYMM v. US](http://supreme.justia.com/us/439/1105/case.html)). Further, Governor Walker [tried to close DMV offices](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/06/289545/facing-backlash-for-disenfranchising-voters-gov-walker-reverses-course-on-plan-to-close-several-dmv-offices/) in liberal areas and extend DMV hours in conservative areas. Apparently this has been stopped but he tried. This is called disenfranchisement. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/293 "2011-09-08T05:51:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0G01zbHGM8) of a woman in Wisconsin trying to get her son a voter ID card (I presume he is 18 so doing it for the first time). > > In Wisconsin they need to see bank activity. There is NO defined criteria. The person at the DMV can decide what is enough. The kid is 18 so not a lot of bank activity. What does banking activity have to do with voting? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/294 "2011-09-08T05:53:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What does banking activity have to do with voting? Beats me. I am guessing it helps “prove” you are a resident. By having bank activity there you can show you live there. Watch the video. You see the guy asking for it and not being convinced. ETA: If you watch the whole thing she asks how homeless can meet that requirement. He says they are a special case and if they can get a letter from a homeless shelter that would count. ETA: Pretty sure this is a “new” requirement. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/295 "2011-09-08T06:43:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Beats me. > > I am guessing it helps “prove” you are a resident. By having bank activity there you can show you live there. I guess. That would seem to be a bigger block to being able to vote than some of the other things folks are going on about here. > [@](#): > > Watch the video. Oh, I didn’t care that much - was just curious. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/296 "2011-09-08T07:46:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0G01zbHGM8) of a woman in Wisconsin trying to get her son a voter ID card (I presume he is 18 so doing it for the first time). > > In Wisconsin they need to see bank activity. I did watch this 10-minute video, though I’ve enough experience to have an (accurate as it turned out) preconception of about what to expect. The government employees were very courteous (did they know they were on camera? 🆒 ). I did think it odd that the person at first station (who inspected a person’s bank statement, for which privacy might be expected) referred a simple question to “the full-time employees.” The voter ID is free, but employees make clear their instructions from “the powers that be” are to charge $28 unless the apllicant specifically asks for the free card. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Oh, I didn’t care that much … And this is the key problem. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/297 "2011-09-08T10:12:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0G01zbHGM8) of a woman in Wisconsin trying to get her son a voter ID card (I presume he is 18 so doing it for the first time). > > In Wisconsin they need to see bank activity. There is NO defined criteria. The person at the DMV can decide what is enough. The kid is 18 so not a lot of bank activity. > > If you are a student just coming to Wisconsin you are not likely to have bank activity in Wisconsin. Never mind that the Supreme Court determined that students have a right to vote where they go to school ([SYMM v. US](http://supreme.justia.com/us/439/1105/case.html)). > > Further, Governor Walker [tried to close DMV offices](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/06/289545/facing-backlash-for-disenfranchising-voters-gov-walker-reverses-course-on-plan-to-close-several-dmv-offices/) in liberal areas and extend DMV hours in conservative areas. Apparently this has been stopped but he tried. > > This is called disenfranchisement. That video is irrelevant to what I said. There is, in fact, no Constitutional right to vote without proving your identity. That statement is correct. If the requirements for getting the required identity proof are too onerous, that needs to be addressed. But the principle that your identity needs to be proven in order to vote is not in question in that video. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/298 "2011-09-08T10:38:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That video is irrelevant to what I said. There is, in fact, no Constitutional right to vote without proving your identity. That statement is correct. If the requirements for getting the required identity proof are too onerous, that needs to be addressed. But the principle that your identity needs to be proven in order to vote is not in question in that video. Pointless hair-splitting. We have a constitutional right to _vote_. There are no conditions or clauses on that; we have the right. There is no constitutional “right to vote without paying a poll tax” either, but guess what: the supreme court deemed poll taxes, literacy tests before polling, and the like unconstitutional, and while I can’t say exactly what their reasoning was, I can hypothesize. Turn your statement around for any other right in the constitution. “There is no constitutional right to speak without ID”. “There is no right to freedom from religion without being part of the national atheist registry.” See how ridiculous this is? The rights given to citizens in the constitution are given without clauses, conditions, and denial. If you are a US Citizen, you have a right to vote in the national election of your country. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/299 "2011-09-08T11:04:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That video is irrelevant to what I said. There is, in fact, no Constitutional right to vote without proving your identity. That statement is correct. If the requirements for getting the required identity proof are too onerous, that needs to be addressed. But the principle that your identity needs to be proven in order to vote is not in question in that video. But it does reinforce the basic point that the drive for proof of identity to vote is being politicized. If Wisconsin is making it more difficult for people to acquire the necessary ID to vote simply to make it more difficult to vote, then that needs to be addressed. With fire. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/300 "2011-09-08T12:45:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Damn, I thought I went back far enough to see if “importing” had actually been used, but obviously I didn’t. Sigh. > > I rather doubt that **Hyperelastic** meant that in the literal sense tho. I dunno. I don’t think (s)he was asserting that the Democrats scoured the globe for sympathetic brown people and dumped them en masse in the USA in order to win an election. Actually, I’m not sure I understand what the claim was at all, and **Hyperelastic** ’s clarification was not, um, clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=16)