# I Pit GOP "voting reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180 "2011-09-04T19:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/301 "2011-09-08T12:53:30Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Pointless hair-splitting. We have a constitutional right to _vote_. There are no conditions or clauses on that; we have the right. The right is conditioned on being of age and a citizen, and voting once only. So yes, there are conditions. And those conditions are what the ID is supposed to check. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/302 "2011-09-08T12:57:04Z")
Just a quick note on the ‘ease’ of getting a state issued ID, at least here in Minneapolis. TheKid, 17, wants to get her ID as she will probably not have a drivers’ license for a year. First we had to go get a certified copy of her birth certificate ($26). I don’t know about you, but most people I know do not have a certified copy of their BC laying around. That part was simple, just a 90 minute wait at our local service center, with decent hours. Luckily, being her mom, it was just a matter of showing my drivers’ license. If I hadn’t gone with, she would have needed someone who has known her for a few years to vouch for her identity. For people who have never had a state issued ID before, you have to go to a specific service center on the southside of the city. It’s open M-F, 9am-5pm. So, not only do I have to drive to an area I am totally not familiar with, I also have to take time off from work to take her there. The cost for the ID is $18, not horrible, but added to the cost of the birth certificate we’re at $44, not including the time cost and gas cost. I can easily see someone who has young children, medical issues, or who has difficulties taking off from work seeing the process as not simple. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/303 "2011-09-08T13:14:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The right is conditioned on being of age and a citizen, and voting once only. So yes, there are conditions. And those conditions are what the ID is supposed to check. I believe, ordinarily, the Supreme Court tries to grant the broadest latitude for a given right. All rights are circumscribed and not absolute but restrictions on those rights try to be narrow. If you can show that Wisconsin’s new restrictions are necessary to prevent voter fraud I’ll eat my hat. That before these restrictions there was a real issue that needed to be addressed. Their restrictions are clearly aimed at disenfranchising a certain segment of the voting public. > [@](#): > > \*\*In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud \*\* > > WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews. > > Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year. > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/304 "2011-09-08T13:52:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Pointless hair-splitting. We have a constitutional right to _vote_. There are no conditions or clauses on that; we have the right. There is no constitutional “right to vote without paying a poll tax” either, but guess what: the supreme court deemed poll taxes, literacy tests before polling, and the like unconstitutional, and while I can’t say exactly what their reasoning was, I can hypothesize. > > Turn your statement around for any other right in the constitution. “There is no constitutional right to speak without ID”. “There is no right to freedom from religion without being part of the national atheist registry.” See how ridiculous this is? The rights given to citizens in the constitution are given without clauses, conditions, and denial. If you are a US Citizen, you have a right to vote in the national election of your country. Full stop. Not quite. The felon restrictions kick in in many places, certainly in my state. Many people in my area are not U.S. citizens - but determining this fact would be difficult without an identification check or registration process of some kind. And sure - there are restrictions on other rights in various ways. The right to bear arms in many locations is made conditional on various paperwork requirements and even fees, and this right is similarly removed upon conviction of a felony even if the felony was nonviolent. So this comparison does not hold up well, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/305 "2011-09-08T14:46:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The right is conditioned on being of age and a citizen, and voting once only. So yes, there are conditions. And those conditions are what the ID is supposed to check. _sigh_ Conditions _intrinsic to the activity_. The right is granted to citizens of age. Full stop. That said, it seems that my original argument focused more on the semantics of yours and I don’t seem to have that much of a case regarding that anyways (@ **Mr. Moto** : I disagree heavily with removing the rights of felons to vote, just FYI), so I’ll just drop it for now and just focus on the key problem here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14230753&postcount=284](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14230753&postcount=284) (starting from the second quote; the first one is slightly hyperbolic and pointless) and, for good measure: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14231703&postcount=302](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14231703&postcount=302) Look, if it was no skin off of anyone’s back to get a photo ID, _or_ voter fraud actually made a whit of real difference in reality, this discussion would not be happening. If the government would search through your records, and, upon you turning 18, deliver a freshly stamped photo ID to your doorstep, free of charge, without any more than truly minimal hassle/paperwork, then this would not be a discussion, because nobody would be disenfranchised–everyone would have absolutely no problem getting a voter ID. If the voting booths were overrun by fraudulent voters, illegal immigrants, and this was making a demonstrable and real impact on election results; if control of our government was going over to those smart enough to scam the system and the massive inflow of illegal immigrants (and we could demonstrate that these claims were more than just hearsay and demagoguery, which unfortunately doesn’t seem to be the case), then this would not be a discussion, because regardless of the disenfranchisement, ID would be an unfortunate necessity to ensure that the will of the people is actually upheld. If _either_ of those conditions were anywhere near the reality, then I guarantee, none but the most radical political spinsters would be trying to pass this off as disenfranchisement for poor/immigrant/etc. voters. But here’s the problem: they don’t. Getting a photo ID as it stands right now involves a lot of time that poor families often simply do not have, an amount of transit that can be very inconvenient, and an amount of money that, while perhaps insignificant to _you_, is around a day’s wages for someone living on minimum wage–and that _just for suffrage_?! What makes this even worse is what I’ve heard about republicans closing DMVs and the like in democratic/poor areas. If these allegations are true (I do not have a source at the moment, so take this with a grain of salt), then there’s really absolutely no question here: this is purely to disenfranchise the voters in those lower-class communities. And I welcome you to cite cases of actual voter fraud. Go ahead, find me one where more than 0.001% of the voting populace in a state or federal election was found to be fraudulent. Until you do, you have absolutely no plausibility when it comes to claims that this is at all necessary. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/306 "2011-09-08T15:18:52Z")
I have to say that I find it implausible that any meaningful number of illegal immigrants try to vote. You have to keep in mind that these are people who want to remain under the radar. They’re often even afraid to call the police when they’ve been victimized. A given illegal has very little to gain personally by attempting to vote, and everything to lose. I just don’t understand what their motivation would be. I also don’t understand what the motivation would be for Democrats to attempt to get them to vote. There are large numbers of legal minorities and poor who don’t currently vote. They constitute a large pool of voters for the Democrats to go after, making the risky solicitation of illegal votes completely unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/307 "2011-09-08T15:24:18Z")
Many people have expressed the sentiment that actual voter fraud is negligble. By the same token, the percentage of actual people that can’t get an ID is negligble. In fact, the plaintiffs in _Marion_ couldn’t produce a single person who was actually unable to get an ID. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/308 "2011-09-08T15:26:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Many people have expressed the sentiment that actual voter fraud is negligble. > > By the same token, the percentage of actual people that can’t get an ID is negligble. In fact, the plaintiffs in _Marion_ couldn’t produce a single person who was actually unable to get an ID. Doesn’t this ignore people who didn’t even bother to try because of the hassle involved? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/309 "2011-09-08T15:30:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Many people have expressed the sentiment that actual voter fraud is negligble. > > By the same token, the percentage of actual people that can’t get an ID is negligble. In fact, the plaintiffs in _Marion_ couldn’t produce a single person who was actually unable to get an ID. So if someone wants to buy a gun it is ok for the state to throw any impediments it wants in the way as long as it can be shown anyone legally eligible could get one if they just jump through the hoops? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/310 "2011-09-08T15:44:41Z")
How could it even be done? Presuming we are talking about a voter fraud with some actual electoral impact, how would it be done? And lets assume from the git-go that we are talking about lefties commiting voter fraud here. Tighty rightys would never ever do such a thing, their respect for the process is, like, total. No way they would ever fuck with something so sacred. Be here all week, tip your veal, try the waitress. Money? What money, where? The other guys got billionaires, shoving money into fake grassroots groups like Americans for Freedom and Liberty, Free Americans for Liberty, Patriotic Americans for Crunchy Goodness, they got a buttload. The left got diddly squat. Secrecy. Got keep this on the down low, dial it down to minus five. We ain’t very good at secrecy. Couldn’t even keep Obama’s fanatical devotion to Islam a secret, everybody knows about Obama being on the Harvard Sharia Law Review. Conspirators. Gonna need bodies, going to register to vote, then going to vote in…what? Ten different polling places in a day? Only place you could possibly get away with that is in the inner city, where people wait three-four hours to vote. How many people would you need to get an extra thousand votes? Couple hundred? Then you gotta worry about one of them ratting you out to get out from under a parking ticket, or a crack bust. Then you gotta keep track of who registered where, who voted where. Maybe in the inner city, drugged out hippies voting won’t be noticed. Not in 'burbs. You can trust me on that one. For what? Suppose you actually get the thousand bogus votes, and the other guy wins by two thousand. Well, fuck. Suppose you get the thousand bogus votes, and your guy wins by two thousand. Well, fuck. Then you get caught, its even worse, you could have had it in the bag, now, you got problems. Sure, it worked for Al Franken, but thats the People’s Republic of Minnesota! And he was running againt Norm Coleman, the only person Garrison Keillor ever actually hated! Wait, what if it isn’t organized into a conspiracy? What if one guy registers bogus, and tells ten other guys, and they do it, and tell ten more, and pretty soon you’ve got a movement! Oh, no, wait, that’s not a plan, that’s Alice’s Restaraunt. Never mind. The fraud will never, ever be in the registration and voting. The fraud will be in the counting. Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/311 "2011-09-08T15:50:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0G01zbHGM8) of a woman in Wisconsin trying to get her son a voter ID card (I presume he is 18 so doing it for the first time). > > In Wisconsin they need to see bank activity. There is NO defined criteria. The person at the DMV can decide what is enough. The kid is 18 so not a lot of bank activity. > > If you are a student just coming to Wisconsin you are not likely to have bank activity in Wisconsin. Never mind that the Supreme Court determined that students have a right to vote where they go to school ([SYMM v. US](http://supreme.justia.com/us/439/1105/case.html)). > > Further, Governor Walker [tried to close DMV offices](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/06/289545/facing-backlash-for-disenfranchising-voters-gov-walker-reverses-course-on-plan-to-close-several-dmv-offices/) in liberal areas and extend DMV hours in conservative areas. Apparently this has been stopped but he tried. > > This is called disenfranchisement. This post is wrong and so is the video. Here is a link to the actual voter registration form. [http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/gab\_forms/4/gab\_131\_voter\_registration\_application\_pdf\_67750.pdf](http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/gab_forms/4/gab_131_voter_registration_application_pdf_67750.pdf) Here is the information on the web site: [http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting](http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting) Here is what it says at the DMV: [http://www.dot.state.wi.us/drivers/drivers/apply/doc/proof-resident.htm](http://www.dot.state.wi.us/drivers/drivers/apply/doc/proof-resident.htm) There are about 10 different ways to identify yourself for a driver’s license in Wisconsin and it isn’t required to register to vote in Wisconsin any way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/312 "2011-09-08T15:52:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Many people have expressed the sentiment that actual voter fraud is negligble. > > By the same token, the percentage of actual people that can’t get an ID is negligble. In fact, the plaintiffs in _Marion_ couldn’t produce a single person who was actually unable to get an ID. Uncomfortable with this topic, **Bricker**? Rather talk about something else? Why not liberal hypocrisy, the Old Reliable? Not about stopping someone from voting. About _hindering_. Making it more difficult, discouraging. Sure, someone dedicated, determined, can still do it. Is there something in the Constitution about voting rights being dependent upon sincerity and dedication? No? Well, OK, then, can we move along now? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/313 "2011-09-08T15:56:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …The fraud will never, ever be in the registration and voting. The fraud will be in the counting. Sound familiar? Exactly. And yet, the people who are oh so concerned about voter fraud have no problem whatsoever with voting on unverifiable black boxes. It’s weird, they seem to be concentrating huge resources on a possibility that is probably the least likely to alter the outcome of an election while, at the same time, concentrating huge resources on expensive machines that, if subverted, could make a huge difference in the outcome. If they are so concerned with fraud, then why aren’t they also spending time, effort, and resources on convincing election boards to go back to paper and pencil? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/314 "2011-09-08T15:57:49Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I have to say that I find it implausible that any meaningful number of illegal immigrants try to vote. > > You have to keep in mind that these are people who want to remain under the radar. They’re often even afraid to call the police when they’ve been victimized. > > A given illegal has very little to gain personally by attempting to vote, and everything to lose. I just don’t understand what their motivation would be. > > I also don’t understand what the motivation would be for Democrats to attempt to get them to vote. There are large numbers of legal minorities and poor who don’t currently vote. They constitute a large pool of voters for the Democrats to go after, making the risky solicitation of illegal votes completely unnecessary. Just because it is implausible [doesn’t mean it can’t happen from time to time.](http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/23/local/me-compton23) The councilwoman involved here, Leslie Irving, was later found guilty of committing offenses against the electorate and barred permanently from holding elected office in California. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/315 "2011-09-08T15:59:23Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > This post is wrong and so is the video. So the video didn’t happen? Was all CGI or something? :rolleyes: The governor didn’t try to close DMV’s in liberal areas? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/316 "2011-09-08T16:06:55Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Just because it is implausible [doesn’t mean it can’t happen from time to time.](http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/23/local/me-compton23) > > The councilwoman involved here, Leslie Irving, was later found guilty of committing offenses against the electorate and barred permanently from holding elected office in California. Correct, which is why I said implausible rather than impossible, and used the term “meaningful number”. It isn’t even clear from that article whether or not those 6 votes made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/317 "2011-09-08T16:11:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Look, if it was no skin off of anyone’s back to get a photo ID, _or_ voter fraud actually made a whit of real difference in reality, this discussion would not be happening. I presume that you agree that the right to vote is conditional on being a citizen and of age, and that voting multiple times is a nono. Presenting a government-provided photo ID at the time of voting is a pretty sure way to satisfy these conditions. Thus, requiring it is not a violation of the right to vote. US Supreme Court has ruled in the past that there is a freedom of movement right for citizens to exit/enter the United States. But the US government still requires a passport. Do you object to that as well? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/318 "2011-09-08T16:14:59Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Correct, which is why I said implausible rather than impossible, and used the term “meaningful number”. It isn’t even clear from that article whether or not those 6 votes made a difference. Well, I guess it made a difference for Councilwoman Irving at least. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/319 "2011-09-08T16:15:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I presume that you agree that the right to vote is conditional on being a citizen and of age, and that voting multiple times is a nono. > > Presenting a government-provided photo ID at the time of voting is a pretty sure way to satisfy these conditions. Thus, requiring it is not a violation of the right to vote. Photography wasn’t invented till 1827. Willing to bet photo IDs took a lot longer to come around. It is a wonder the nation ever survived without them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/320 "2011-09-08T16:24:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Stop being fucking stupid. State IDs cost money. Requiring people to pay money to vote is called a poll tax. Poll taxes are not only wrong, but unconstitutional. > > If you do not understand this shit, do us a favor and stop posting here. There is nothing that a grade school dropout can teach us. Completely incorrect as a matter of law – state IDs don’t always cost money directly. And indirect costs are permissible… and kind of funny that you announce a standard that is, legally, utterly wrong while in the same breath telling someone else that their limited understanding is worthy of scorn. In Harper, the Supreme Court invalidated restrictions on the right to vote that were not related to voter qualifications, like a poll tax. But they expressly said that: > [@](#): > > "evenhanded restrictions that protect the integrity and reliability of the electoral process itself… Are permitted. So is a scheme that imposes a minimal burden on voters – a free ID card but a trip to a local DMV with identity proving documents that may cost money, for example-- is such a scheme Constitutional? Yes, said the Court in Crawford: > [@](#): > > ``` > The burdens that are relevant to the issue before us are those imposed on persons who are eligible to vote but do not possess a current photo identification that complies with the requirements of SEA 483.16 The fact that most voters already possess a valid driver's license, or some other form of acceptable identification, would not save the statute under our reasoning in Harper, if the State required voters to pay a tax or a fee to obtain a new photo identification. But just as other States provide free voter registration cards, the photo identification cards issued by Indiana's BMV are also free. For most voters who need them, the inconvenience of making a trip to the BMV, gathering the required documents, and posing for a photograph surely does not qualify as a substantial burden on the right to vote, or even represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. > > Both evidence in the record and facts of which we may take judicial notice, however, indicate that a somewhat heavier burden may be placed on a limited number of persons. They include elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate; persons who because of economic or other personal limitations may find it difficult either to secure a copy of their birth certificate or to assemble the other required documentation to obtain a state-issued identification; homeless persons; and persons with a religious objection to being photographed. If we assume, as the evidence suggests, that some members of these classes were registered voters when SEA 483 was enacted, the new identification requirement may have imposed a special burden on their right to vote. > > The severity of that burden is, of course, mitigated by the fact that, if eligible, voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will ultimately be counted. To do so, however, they must travel to the circuit court clerk's office within 10 days to execute the required affidavit. It is unlikely that such a requirement would pose a constitutional problem unless it is wholly unjustified. And even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners' right to the relief they seek in this litigation. > > ``` The Court went on to uphold Indiana’s voter ID law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=17)