# I Pit GOP "voting reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180 "2011-09-04T19:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/561 "2011-09-13T01:53:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Now ask yourself: What would someone do whose interest was not any particular party’s advantage over the other, but in increasing participation in democracy for the sake of strengthening and deepening democracy? WWSDWIWNAPPAOTOBIIPIDFTSOSADD. That’s gonna be one big bracelet. Probably have to be a belt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/562 "2011-09-13T01:55:20Z")
> [@](#): > > …with reports of a dozen nuns being denied ballots at the polls due to their lack of appropriate identification… Well, now, just a second, that could be wholly justified! If the miscreants found out you could commit voter registration fraud and get away with it, just by dressing up like a nun? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/563 "2011-09-13T01:56:55Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > WWSDWIWNAPPAOTOBIIPIDFTSOSADD. > > That’s gonna be one big bracelet. Probably have to be a belt. You could have it tattooed on your Perry! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/564 "2011-09-13T02:10:23Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I won’t leave you with the impression that all other papers are of the opinion that Voter-ID laws are harmful. Many others see them as neutral. The point is that, although **Bricker** has provided one such paper saying that Voter ID has negligible effect, it is certainly not the last word on the topic – most of these papers are more recent than his cite. I haven’t read them, because I can’t download the papers at home (a least not without paying a fee. If I’m gonna pay, there are other papers I’d want to get), but the Abstracts tell the relevant results. The last abstract says that Hispanic voters and black voters were asked for identification at higher rates than white voters? How can that be, when the law requires everyone to be asked for ID? I certainly oppose any law that vests election workers with discretion on asking for ID. The law under discussion doesn’t allow poll workers to use their best judgment, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/565 "2011-09-13T02:15:52Z")
Reading further, are we to believe that representative Julia Carson (D-IN) could not afford a driver’s license? If so, she would certainly have been eligible for a free Indiana ID card. Right? What are we to make of the fact that Ms. Carson did not have one? Are you seriously offering up her case as proof that ther voter ID system is flawed? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/566 "2011-09-13T02:19:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The last abstract says that Hispanic voters and black voters were asked for identification at higher rates than white voters? How can that be, when the law requires everyone to be asked for ID? Indeed, in an Ideal World there ought not to be a difference between voters, and everyone ought to be asked the same way. Are you saying that the authors misstated their observations? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/567 "2011-09-13T02:23:38Z")
I wonder how much of that is due to unconcious assumptions of the poll worker, rather than any malign intent. The mildest form of racism, the one that affects people who are certain they are not racists. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/568 "2011-09-13T03:36:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Indeed, in an Ideal World there ought not to be a difference between voters, and everyone ought to be asked the same way. > > Are you saying that the authors misstated their observations? I’m saying the authors weren’t studying a law like the one under discussion in this thread. I’m saying that the authors’ study is not relevant to this law. I’m sure the authors were accurate in their results, but those results are not applicable here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/569 "2011-09-13T03:38:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I wonder how much of that is due to unconcious assumptions of the poll worker, rather than any malign intent. The mildest form of racism, the one that affects people who are certain they are not racists. Well, if in fact the true application of this “mandatory” voter ID law is that it’s only used when Hispanics and blacks vote, and ignored when whites vote, then I will do a complete 180 and oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/570 "2011-09-13T03:58:36Z")
Well, of course, if there is no discretion on the part of the poll worker, if every voter must be treated in precisely the same manner, the point is moot. Yes, you’re quite right, and I concede the point. So there. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/571 "2011-09-13T04:33:44Z")
The voter ID law will have about zero impact on the wealthy or middle class. It will and does, impact poor people and old people. A large part of the poor are people of color. So it certainly will have a bad impact on their ability to vote. But any lawyer knows better than to say any or only impact Hispanics or blacks, knowing full well there must be some white people without cars or passports. But it surely will have a far greater impact on them. Wisconsin came up with a 20 percent figure for people who vote not having proper ID. We all know what people are being hurt. It is not coincidence that they lean Democratic. Because there is practically zero voting fraud , it is not difficult to figure out why the Repubs want to crack down. It is selective voter suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/572 "2011-09-13T05:47:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The voter ID law will have about zero impact on the wealthy or middle class. It will and does, impact poor people and old people. A large part of the poor are people of color. So it certainly will have a bad impact on their ability to vote. > But any lawyer knows better than to say any or only impact Hispanics or blacks, knowing full well there must be some white people without cars or passports. But it surely will have a far greater impact on them. > Wisconsin came up with a 20 percent figure for people who vote not having proper ID. We all know what people are being hurt. It is not coincidence that they lean Democratic. Because there is practically zero voting fraud , it is not difficult to figure out why the Repubs want to crack down. It is selective voter suppression. I’m sorry but this is moronic, paternalistic borderline racist crap. If there was any truth to your claims then the studies done so far regarding voter turnout in elections with the Voter ID laws in place would have shown a drop in the voting but they haven’t. For your sake I hope you’ve never ridiculed truthers or birthers because like them you are impervious to logic. Furthermore please produce a source for your claim that 20% of all adults in Wisconsin lack a state ID, military ID, student ID, tribal ID, passport or driver’s license. I’ve been there and I find such a claim highly dubious. We’ve already wasted pages on this thread because gullible, guilt-ridden liberal whites who know nothing about blacks rather foolishly bought into the idea that 25% of all African-American adults have no ID. We shouldn’t waste any more. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/573 "2011-09-13T07:23:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > We’ve already wasted pages on this thread because gullible, guilt-ridden liberal whites who know nothing about blacks rather foolishly bought into the idea that 25% of all African-American adults have no ID. We shouldn’t waste any more. I’ve spent 15 of the last 20 years working in Compton and East LA. Now, what is your experience? > **[State Rep. Armond Budish says one-quarter of African Americans don't have...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/apr/07/armond-budish/state-rep-armond-budish-says-one-quarter-african-a/)** > > It’s normal for House Democrats and Republicans to have sharp divides, but last month’s heated debate over a controversi “They” didn’t cherry pick the most favorable numbers: > [@](#): > > A study from Wisconsin found much higher percentage of black adults without state ID. Statewide, 80 percent of men and 81 percent of women had a valid drivers license, the study found. But only 45 percent of black males and 51 percent of black females had a driver’s license or other form of state ID BTW, you do realize you’re in the Pit, right? So you don’t think we’d take your opinion about time wasting at all seriously, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/574 "2011-09-13T09:26:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The voter ID law will have about zero impact on the wealthy or middle class. It will and does, impact poor people and old people. A large part of the poor are people of color. So it certainly will have a bad impact on their ability to vote. > But any lawyer knows better than to say any or only impact Hispanics or blacks, knowing full well there must be some white people without cars or passports. But it surely will have a far greater impact on them. > Wisconsin came up with a 20 percent figure for people who vote not having proper ID. We all know what people are being hurt. It is not coincidence that they lean Democratic. Because there is practically zero voting fraud , it is not difficult to figure out why the Repubs want to crack down. It is selective voter suppression. But again we’re back to the point that these poor and minority people can still get voter IDs. Free ones. It is their choice not to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/575 "2011-09-13T11:35:51Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > But again we’re back to the point that these poor and minority people can still get voter IDs. Free ones. It is their choice not to. Does Wisconsin subsidize transportation and fees necessary to get supporting documents (such as a birth certificate)? If not I question the premise of “free”. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/576 "2011-09-13T11:44:28Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Does Wisconsin subsidize transportation and fees necessary to get supporting documents (such as a birth certificate)? > > If not I question the premise of “free”. Nope. They also don’t subsidize the shirt and shoes you need to enter the building. Same way they don’t subsidize the gas people use to drive to their polling place to vote. I guess voting really isn’t free at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/577 "2011-09-13T15:11:24Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I’ve spent 15 of the last 20 years working in Compton and East LA. > > Now, what is your experience? > > [PolitiFact | State Rep. Armond Budish says one-quarter of African Americans don't have photo ID](http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/apr/07/armond-budish/state-rep-armond-budish-says-one-quarter-african-a/) > > “They” didn’t cherry pick the most favorable numbers: > > BTW, you do realize you’re in the Pit, right? So you don’t think we’d take your opinion about time wasting at all seriously, I hope. Exactly who did this study and how was it done. According to this “study” that you’re citing more than half of all African-American adults in Wisconcin have neither driver’s licenses or State IDs. So, who came up with it and how? Beyond that, I’m wondering why my friend who owns a liquor store in Milwaukee lied to me the other day. Almost all his customers are poor African-Americans. Most are asked to present IDs and he’s never had any who couldn’t. If there was any truth to this study then nobody would have liquor stores in African-American neighborhoods in Wisconcin. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/578 "2011-09-13T15:20:44Z")
Wouldn’t be that hard to do, if that’s what they were concerned about. Set up a few offices in the less wholesome areas, a couple of staffers, an internet connection. A bit of training. ACORN could do it, they have trained people, know the ropes of voter registration…oh, wait, they’re dead, aren’t they? Bad luck. Darn shame. Shucks! Still, wouldn’t cost much money. What’s that? No money available, all gone to tax cuts to help the business environment and creating jobs? Gee, another unfortunate coincidence. Bet the local churches and non-profits could be enlisted to help. Maybe my suggestions aren’t all that good. Maybe we should go with the Republican suggestions for helping these folks out. Which are what, exactly? I must have missed that part. \*\*Haborwolf \*\*apparently believes we should deploy sarcasm, but I don’t see how that’s helping much. 'Course, those people could simply be lying. Really, this is no problem for them at all, they are just making stuff up. They probably figure they should get a boost in their food stamps for registering. Yeah, that’s probably it. And let me emphasize one more time, for the slower witted amongst us: this isn’t about preventing voting. Its about making it more difficult, more of a pain in the butt. Its not about blocking masses of people from voting, they would never get away with that. Its about making it difficult enough so that some of the potential voters won’t do it. They are, in the parlance of corrupt sports betting, “shaving points”. Cover the spread, so to speak. Its about keeping a slight advantage from becoming a slight disadvantage. If this were an utterly innocent effort to restrain the dreadful threat of voter registration fraud, it would be child’s play to compensate. See any effort to do so? Suppose George Soros steps in, says, tell you what, I’ll pay for it. I’ll rent the office, pay the staff, buy the computers, all that good shit. Guy walks into an office just a few blocks from his home, shows the correct paperwork. We take a picture, store it on a secure server. Issue a voter registration receipt, with the picture. Voter shows up with the receipt, if there’s any question, they can compare the picture on the card to the picture on the database, and they will match exactly, being, of course, the same picture. He votes. Easy peasy Nipponeezy! If a dirty fucking hippy can think of this, how come they can’t? Because they don’t want to? OK, maybe they don’t like my plan. What’s theirs? Have they made any effort at all? ---
**Author:** ![Plumbkrazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Plumbkrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumbkrazy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/579 "2011-09-13T15:57:07Z")
Voting reform and the existence of the Tea Party are both reactions to one thing, and one thing only: A black man in the White House. If you’re going to be a racist moron, at least have the guts to say so, instead of hiding behind pseudo-intellectual horseshit. Republicans are the party of inbred, rural, dimwitted, ignorant, racist dipshits who routinely vote against their own best interests because of what they think God wants. For helping to tank our economy and widen the already huge gap between the left and right, eat my ass. For doing so because there’s one of them thar’ negroes in the White House and not having the guts to admit it, eat my ass on burrito night. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/580 "2011-09-13T17:02:49Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > In other words, the stalwart base of the Democratic Party is composed of people who can’t figure out how to get a photo ID. You idiots shouldn’t be running a pencil sharpener, let alone the country. I think this post is pretty close to the truth I’d prefer to believe. I mean, if you were to rephrase it in neutral terms such as: “people who can’t figure out how to get a photo ID shouldn’t be running a pencil sharpener, let alone the country.” It’s strikes me as incredibly naive to think there is a significant number of people in this country who don’t exercise personal accountability to the extent they can obtain and hold onto something as mundane and useful as a state-issued ID card, but ARE attentive enough citizens to cast a reasonably thought-out vote. Besides, the issue has nothing to do with citizenship, race, or wealth. It has everything to do with The Government keeping track of who votes, and how. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=30)