# I Pit GOP "voting reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180 "2011-09-04T19:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/681 "2011-09-20T02:24:25Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > So the GOP have decided Nebraska, one of the few states who allow split electoral votes by district, needs to be consolidated. This is the exact opposite of what the GOP is looking to do in Pennsylvania. > > Can anyone explain how a principled party could come to the decision that different structures are appropriate? I thought they were arguing they were just trying to further democracy in Pennsylvania. Is it fair to say then they are looking to halt democracy in Nebraska?.. I can explain it. If the principle is that Republicans win, and that Republicans winning is the only right and just result of Democracy (if it wasn’t for those _wrong_ people being able to vote) then a principled party can come to that decision. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/682 "2011-09-20T02:34:14Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Is it fair to say then they are looking to halt democracy in Nebraska? > > Can we call this hypocritical by your definitions Bricker? > [@elucidator](#): > > All perfectly legal. I think it’s fair to wait for **Bricker** ’s resonse. Which will likely involve something about “It’s perfectly legal,” just as he grants that the brouhaha for the Senate election in Massachusetts was perfectly legal. That said, if someone would care to throw a cite at me that Nebraska is changing their electoral college rules, I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/683 "2011-09-20T02:55:43Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > …That said, if someone would care to throw a cite at me that Nebraska is changing their electoral college rules, I’d appreciate it. [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63819.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63819.html) > [@](#): > > But Nebraska Republicans are going out of their way to make sure they won’t help reelect the president, just in case: > > ``` > In separate action, the [Republican state central] committee approved a resolution that would deny party support to any Republican state senator who fails to support legislation returning Nebraska to a winner-take-all presidential electoral vote system. > Continue Reading > > An ancillary effect of that action, primarily designed to wipe out any Democratic opportunity to pick up the 2nd Congressional District electoral vote for the second presidential election in a row, could be depression of Democratic activity in the Omaha district to [Sen. Ben] Nelson's disadvantage. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/684 "2011-09-20T13:44:14Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > So the GOP have decided Nebraska, one of the few states who allow split electoral votes by district, needs to be consolidated. This is the exact opposite of what the GOP is looking to do in Pennsylvania. > > Can anyone explain how a principled party could come to the decision that different structures are appropriate? I thought they were arguing they were just trying to further democracy in Pennsylvania. Is it fair to say then they are looking to halt democracy in Nebraska? > > Can we call this hypocritical by your definitions Bricker? Yes. Although if the position is simply taken by legislators, and not the party as a whole, then no. Either way, it’s hard to see how the change could be called “furthering democracy,” so even if it’s not hypocritcal, what you describe in Nebraska is looking to halt, or more accurately limit, democracy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/685 "2011-09-20T14:15:48Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > “The thing that bugs me so much about 2000 and Florida, and I think we might agree here, is not so much that things were decided the way they were (although I’m unhappy about that for any number of reasons), but that so many Republicans seem to be just smug about it… “haha, we won, you lost, get over it”. It’s at some level reasonable to have an attitude of “it’s done, Bush is the legal president, let’s move on”, but I don’t see how anyone can look at that clusterfuck and see it as anything other than a massive blot on American democracy, regardless if one’s preferred candidate won.” > > Amazing how prescient I am. As screwed up as things might have been, it doesn’t give people the right to peddle untruths about it. By the way, it might surprise you and others to learn that I never voted for GWB. Not in 2000, not in 2004. So, although **gonzomax’s** boy lost, I don’t have the attitude that my guy won. So, it appears you’re not quite as prescient as you might have thought. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/686 "2011-09-20T14:17:01Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > And your boy was an incompetent moron who showed how deadly, financially ruinous, surprise, and outright evil your philosophy is. > > The unemployed, and grieving war dead families thank you for voting for their situation. > > Future generations thank you for the damage you did the environment, you selfish evil piece of shit. Massive fail! See previous post. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/687 "2011-09-20T15:40:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As screwed up as things might have been, it doesn’t give people the right to peddle untruths about it. > > By the way, it might surprise you and others to learn that I never voted for GWB. Not in 2000, not in 2004. So, although **gonzomax’s** boy lost, I don’t have the attitude that my guy won. > > So, it appears you’re not quite as prescient as you might have thought. You’re missing my point entirely. As far as I can tell, the “if all the votes had actually been counted, Gore would have won” argument is based on a whole bunch of qualifications and so forth, and is not at all what I’m talking about. My point is that in a democracy, the absolute core fundamental principle of government is that elections are fair, transparent, well-run, etc., so that they can count the intended votes of the voters in as efficient a fashion as possible. The FL election was none of those. It featured purged voter rolls, misleading ballots, was overseen by partisan politicians, in a state whose governor was one candidate’s brother, and eventually the supreme court, on partisan lines, voted to STOP RECOUNTING. Think about that for a second… people were trying to do something to more accurately determine the will of the voters, and the supreme court made them STOP DOING SO. Viewed in isolation, that little utterly fundamental detail is absolutely damning, and yet it’s just taken for granted. It’s an absolute stunning black eye to the basic principle of American democracy, even ignoring its incredible impact (who knew how important the period of 2000-2004 was going to end up being in American history?). So, my point is, for you to treat in a smug, cavalier, “your boy lost, get over it” way, shows a stunning disregard on YOUR part towards American democracy itself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/688 "2011-09-22T15:18:37Z")
> **[Cheers and Jeers: Thursday](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/22/1018922/-Cheers-and-Jeers:-Thursday?detail=hide&via=blog_1)** > > From the GREAT STATE OF MAINE� From your good friends at _Daily Kos_ (That’s right, _Daily Kos_, as lefty as all git out. If they’re lying, prove it or suck it…) June, 2011: Republicans pass a bill, which the Republican governor signs, eliminating the same-day voter registration law that Republicans had passed 38 years ago. The goal, they said, was stemming the rampant voter fraud that allowed Democrats to steal elections willy-nilly. No, I’m not making this up: > [@](#): > > [Maine Republican Party chairman Charlie] Webster believes that, to win tight races, Democrats have brought in voters by the busload to districts where they don’t live. > “If you want to get really honest, this is about how the Democrats have managed to steal elections from Maine people,” Webster said in an interview that Nemitz recorded. “Many of us believe that the Democrats intentionally steal elections.” Shortly after, that same state Republican Party chairman turned over 200+ names of college students to Secretary of State Charlie Summers, alleging VOTER FRAUD! Well, guess what? This morning the results are in, and Republicans have once again lived up to their reputation as the boil on America’s butt: > [@](#): > > Maine Secretary of State Charlie Summers said Wednesday that his investigation into allegations of voter fraud revealed “vulnerabilities” in Maine’s voting system but only one case of illegal voting. One? One incident? Really? Only one? But what about those hundreds of devious, dastardly, election-rigging college students? > [@](#): > > “Summers said Wednesday that none voted illegally.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/689 "2011-09-22T15:27:59Z")
It is easy to understand. The Repubs have no problems lying and cheating to win elections. The concept of fair play does not matter. It is about winning. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/690 "2011-09-22T15:32:41Z")
> **[Recount shows Gore had won](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/12/uselections2000.usa)** > > Fresh evidence has emerged in Florida that Al Gore might have won last year's presidential election under a less contentious voting system, and if the US supreme court had not stepped in to stop the recount. Gore won. That is why the SCOTUS interfered. That is why Harris was in such a hurry to certify. Given enough time, she wouldn’t have been happy with the results. But Gore lost Tennessee. That was inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/691 "2011-09-27T23:22:58Z")
In other news the Great state of Maine is taking away it’s 38 year old policy of allowing same day registration. This policy has not resulted in any fraud and the state has had no issues processing the registrations. I loved this gem, Republican consultant Matt Gagnon, openly admits he wants to subvert democracy. [QUOTE=Matt Gagnon] The only people I want anywhere near a ballot box are those who have demonstrated they are actually invested enough in the process that they want to vote. That is the flaw with same-day voter registration: most of the people it serves are unengaged in the process. [/QUOTE] So Republicans should get final say in who is ‘sufficiently engaged’. Screw that Democracy, thing one man one vote. We have to set standards on what citizens are actually worthy of voting. Of course then their own members would never participate in a process that would demonstrate they themselves lack sufficient engagement in the voting process, like say using the same day voter registration program, except of course: [http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/Coalition-releases-list-of-Republicans-using-same-day-registration.html](http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/Coalition-releases-list-of-Republicans-using-same-day-registration.html) [QUOTE=Morning Sentinel] Voting records reveal Gov. Paul LePage, at least two state senators and seven state representatives have at one time registered to vote on Election Day or during the two business days preceding it. That practice is banned under the new law they all supported. [/QUOTE] If they could feel shame… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/692 "2011-10-05T21:30:20Z")
So a study is saying that GOP voter suppression attempts could keep 5 million Americans from voting. Oh Republicans. [Stay classy](http://www.civilrights.org/archives/2011/10/1248-brennan.html). ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/693 "2011-10-05T22:59:31Z")
In Colorado the Republican Secretary of State is suing a City Clerk for mailing ballots to all registered voters including inactive voters. You are considered inactive if you didn’t vote in the previous years election. [http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/993057-gessler-sues-denver-clerk](http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/993057-gessler-sues-denver-clerk) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/694 "2011-10-06T02:09:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So a study is saying that GOP voter suppression attempts could keep 5 million Americans from voting. > > Oh Republicans. [Stay classy](http://www.civilrights.org/archives/2011/10/1248-brennan.html). How much do you want to bet some Republicans blame the Democrats for all these rules when it turns out that more Republican than Democrat voters were turned away in some county? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/695 "2012-01-26T04:37:04Z")
[Common Dreams](http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/12/30-2) (which I found via a [recent issue of The Risks Digest](http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/26.70.html#subj1)) calls attention to the “voting reform” problem. > [@](#): > > The Brennan Center for Justice estimates that the 25 laws passed in these 14 states could prevent as many as 5 million voters from voting, a number easily exceeding the margin of victory in numerous presidential elections. > > Ohio’s HB 194, which awaits a 2012 referendum vote, would disenfranchise an estimated 900,000 in one of our nation’s key battleground states. > > An important statistic in all the legislation is that 25% of African Americans lack a state photo identification, as do 15% of Latinos, but by comparison, only 8% of white voters. Other significant Democratic constituents—the elderly of all races and college students—would be disproportionately impacted. It seems the NAACP is taking the matter to the United Nations. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180/696 "2012-05-19T21:28:32Z")
[Tennessee has just identified a 93-year old illegal alien who’s been voting illegally (doubtless for Democrats) since the 1940’s](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/26/395287/93-year-old-tennessee-woman-who-cleaned-state-capitol-for-30-years-denied-voter-id/?mobile=nc) > [@](#): > > A 93-year-old Tennessee woman who cleaned the state Capitol for 30 years, including the governor’s office, says she won’t be able to vote for the first time in decades after being told this week that her old state ID failed to meet new voter ID regulations. > > Thelma Mitchell was even accused of being an undocumented immigrant because she couldn’t produce a birth certificate: > > ``` > Mitchell, who was delivered by a midwife in Alabama in 1918, has never had a birth certificate. But when she told that to a drivers’ license clerk, he suggested she might be an illegal immigrant. > > Thelma Mitchell told WSMV-TV that she went to a state drivers’ license center last week after being told that her old state ID from her cleaning job would not meet new regulations for voter identification.... > > ``` > > The incident is the just latest in a series of reports of senior citizens being denied their constitutional right to vote under restrictive new voter ID laws pushed by Republican governors and legislatures. These laws are a transparent attempt to target Democrat constituencies who are less likely to have photo ID’s, and disproportionately affect seniors, college students, the poor and minorities. > > As ThinkProgress reported, one 96-year-old Tennessee woman was denied a voter ID because she didn’t have her marriage license. Another senior citizen in Tennessee, 91-year-old Virginia Lasater, couldn’t get the ID she needed to vote because she wasn’t able to stand in a long line at the DMV. A Tennessee agency even told a 86-year-old World War II veteran that he had to pay an unconstitutional poll tax if he wanted to obtain an ID. And [Wisconsin continues to disenfranchise African-American women despite a court order to stop.](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/04/458149/87-year-old-voter-disenfranchised-by-voter-id-despite-court-decision-striking-it-down/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gop-voting-reform/595180.md?page=34)