Considering the fact that Voter ID laws were put in place years before Barack Obama was running for President that has to be one of the most moronic posts I’ve read on the Straight Dope and that’s saying quite a bit.
Please go read a book and then come back and comment once you can say something without looking like a complete idiot.
Were I you I’d think twice before referring to others as “dimwitted” or “ignorant”.
The Indiana law upheld by the Supreme Court is Indiana Senate Enrolled Act No. 483, 2005 Ind. Acts p.2005.
That means it was passed and became law in 2005.
In 2005, the “black man” in the White House was George W. Bush.
Barack Obama was the junior senator from Illinois.
So are you sure that these voting reform laws are a reaction to one thing, and one thing only: A black man in the White House? Really sure?
They are being pushed simultaneously by the Repub governors that came in the last election. They are all right wing ,tea bagger ideologues who are trying to fix elections for the Repubs. They are brooming as many blacks and poor off the voting rolls as possible.
Kathleen Harris just started erasing voters from the rolls because they had black sounding names.
But is not simply bigotry. It is eliminating likely Dem voters. The fact that blacks are more likely to vote for Barack, means they will suffer the most by losing voting privileges. Harris would have erased white voters who were likely Dems, but she could not tell by names.
So it is not totally racial in its design. But it is heavily racist in its impact and procedure.
Why do you keep making yourself look like an idiot by repeatedly claiming that these laws will suppress votes when studies examining elections in states that have passed such laws have shown no evidence of voter turnout being suppressed.
For your sake I hope you’ve never ridiculed Holocaust Deniers, Truthers, or Birthers because you obviously are in aggressive denial of reality.
And the studies posted by** Cal M.** Post #559? They don’t count?
You mean the ones that stated:
Yup. They count.
Voter ID laws have been in place for several election cycles now. If they actually led to a reduction in voting from poor and/or minority voters we’d be able to present a dramatic amount of evidence to prove it.
It doesn’t so we can’t.
What we’ve seen is a bunch of ignorant white chumps stupidly believing the 25-50% of all African-Americans don’t have IDs.
That said, this thread does do a good job of showing that liberal whites can be just as racist as conservative whites.
I’m a volunteer voter registrar and work part time at a food bank, but not both at the same time. I turn away many potential food bank registrants for lack of current ID (current being the operative word there).
Texas recently passed a voter ID law in and “emergency session” requiring one of 5 forms of ID be presented to vote in the next election. I don’t make cases of voter fraud as an interest and don’t tend to follow the news about it except to say I don’t hear much about voter fraud in Texas and was surprised by the “emergency” law. I am only aware of individual cases on occasion such as Ann Coulter, and never organized cases, at least in my area.
I do know that 6 states have passed laws recently regarding voting that make it a little more difficult. In Florida, which also passed an “emergency” law regarding voting and which also took effect the following day (!), registrars now have only 48 hours to turn in completed forms and lateness can cost the registrar a $1000.00 fine. In Texas, we get a week to turn our forms in and it’s nice to only have to drive downtown once a week. I understand Florida had 31 cases of “suspected” individual voter fraud in the last years with 3 arrests. Quite the “emergency”.
I have no doubt at all that Republican’s are attempting to suppress votes with these “emergencies”, so I will do my part to register and many non R’s as possible. I will gladly register R’s, but don’t seek them out.
First of all, I wasn’t ONLY referring to Voter ID laws. I was referring to the current “prepwork” Republicans are doing to try and steal the upcoming presidential election, if necessary.
You don’t like what I had to say. Great. If inbreds and inbred apologists think what I say is stupid, I must be doing something right…like pointing out the in-your-face racism that has taken place since Obama was elected. As usual, conservatives don’t really have any guts…they just make a lot of noise without actually saying a word.
Oh, and none of them are racist. They just want what’s best for our country. :rolleyes:
Maybe YOU should consider reading a book not written by Ann Coulter.
Nice try, but you’re lying and not doing it very well.
You stated:
As has already been pointed out the Voting reform laws have been pushed through years before Obama was even running so your claim that the push for “voting reform” is due to “one thing and one thing only: A black man in the White House” makes you look like a dumbass.
Why would I read her. She doesn’t like brown people, Middle Easterners or Democrats.
That comment is almost as stupid as your other ones.
Anyway, I’m very sorry for you that you’re so stupid. Perhaps one of these days you’ll read a book and that will change.
Until then, please stop pretending that you actually care about poor people or minorities and stop shooting your mouth off about subjects you know nothing.
As I don’t feel I’ve been particularly sarcastic in this thread, you’ll have to point out to me which problems I’m attempting to solve with sarcasm. In fact, I’d appreciate it if you’d point out which problem you’re going on about because I’m honestly quite lost.
Stuff like this. I’ve no idea where it’s coming from or what comment it’s based on.
But it’s not making it more difficult. It’s really not. And these people can go get free photo IDs. They really can.
I’ll ask it again. What’s the difficulty?
Is this the chaos theory of politics? A liberal fails to get an ID in Newark and the republicans conquer the world? Once again I find myself wondering how fine a point we’re going to put on this.
What if it were the Koch brothers?
You have not established undue hardship. What is this problem that needs so urgent a fix? That some people will find it hard to vote? That’s always going to happen. Always. There is no perfect solution to make it equally easy for everyone to vote.
The only study that suggested a contrary result was not a study of actual voting numbers.
You may accept or ignore evidence as you choose, you are not empowered to decide what qualifies.
After all these pages, only now do you realize you don’t know what we are talking about? And yet, you continue to offer your insightful wisdom? Twain said something to the effect that it is better to reman silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove any lingering doubts.
Sadly, you did not take his advice.
If you’re doubting that I’m a fool this after all these pages, you’ve not been paying attention.
I’ll restate. My confusion stems from the fact that in my opinion most problems have been addressed. States with photo ID laws offer them free. Yes there may be other costs involved (birth certificate and travel costs) but as those costs are indirectly associated with the voting process they are not “poll taxes” and they also aren’t that much to begin with. My broke ass could afford them without even giving up my evening beer, and FYI I don’t buy cheap beer. Yes there are some rare examples that have been given of people whose circumstances would force them to have greater than typical difficulties in getting an ID, but those are the exceptions. This may be my generally pragmatic nature but as long as a system covers the vast vast vast majority, I’m okay with how it works.
As far as disenfranchising voters goes, data has proven inconclusive with various studies pointing various directions. People are putting their faith in whatever study proves their point with little thought or criticism being given to methodology. That makes the issue a bit of a wash.
Yes the issue is political. There has been little to no proof of any voter fraud much less enough to justify all the concern being given it by the republicans. That said, policies are in place to make sure that the majority has access to the requisite identification so that they can participate in our democratic fuckery. Whether they choose to or not is on them.
So yes. What is the problem you are going on about? What have I missed? Are we still circling some point that I thought settled?
You really shouldn’t be criticizing people on their reasoning skills when you offer the preceding.
I suspect that most of your friend’s customers without photo ID are quite aware that it’s required and don’t keep trying to buy alcohol in spite of the lack thereof. They’re also probably aware that they can get a friend with ID to buy the alcohol for them. The latter technique is probably familiar with the vast majority of oh, say Americans over the age of 15.
Might wanna work on that common knowledge gap.
Sigh…
I’m sorry I didn’t realize that you’re so dense you didn’t realize what I was saying.
For a variety of reasons they card anyone who looks 30 or under and most are, if anything older. Also women in their early 30s generally like being carded.
Anyway if you really do believe that less than half of all African-Americans in Wisconcin have either drivers licenses or state IDs then even by the standards of ignorant well-meaning white people you are immensely stupid.
The plural of anecdote is not data. I’m sure you can reach the right conclusion about an anecdote. Unless of course your friends liquor store happens to serve more than half of the African Americans in Wisconsin. Then shine on you crazy diamond.
There may be a certain amount of truth to your post, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s pretty ridiculous to claim that more than half of all African-American adults in Wisconsin, as was claimed earlier, don’t have either a driver’s license.
It was claimed that “a study” found this, but no record of who conducted this study or how it was done has been produced.
For myself I think this thread has degenerated into farce.
Personally, I don’t think voter identification fraud is all that common.
What’s vastly more common are people registered in two states voting twice(I.E. snowbirds in Florida or college students) but I don’t think that’s terribly well organized and needless to say the voter ID laws do nothing to stop it.
Similarly, our absentee ballot system is rife for abuse and often is abused but again the proposed legislation does nothing to stop this.
That said, studies have consistently shown that the voter ID laws haven’t suppressed votes and since we’ve had such laws in place during several election cycles without any evidence being produced of votes being suppressed it strikes me as foolish to think they are.
For a variety of reasons, the vast majority of people in the US have some form of ID and those don’t aren’t going without it because they can’t get ahold of one but because they don’t want one.
It’s pretty obvious that anyone in Indiana who didn’t have an ID, but wanted to vote simply got a state ID for 15 dollars or whatever it costs.
Anyone, I’m a bit sick of hearing white people pretend they care about poor minorities but talk about them as if they’re helpless incompetents.
I’m reminded of Jerry Lewis talking about his “kids.”
I am sure people of color can rest easy, knowing you are the guardian of their dignity.