You must be right. I’m reminded about the annual uproar by millions of adopted people who can’t function in society because they can’t get a birth certificate or an ID. It’s all those evil Pubby Opressors!
The right to vote is the essence of democracy, without it, there is nothing worth having. It is primary, it is primal, it is the ball game. Whether or not I can cross back and forth from Canada or not, or whether I look old enough to buy liquor, or a hand gun, or any of that, is trivial by comparison.
To the extent that we extend that voting right to every citizen, that we bend over backwards to ensure that right, that we go the extra mile to make it so…to that end, we are Americans, as we fall short, we are trying to become Americans, and have yet to succeed. The American Revolution started over two hundred years ago, and it still isn’t over.
A lot of us are working on that, and we could use your help, if you’ve nothing better to do.
Have you? If so, you may be aware that each state has different policies in place for voter registration and election day procedures.
For example, in NY state all I have to do is go to my polling place and tell the 102-year old person behind the table that my name is Justin Bailey and I live at Justin Bailey’s address. They attempt to hide the example signature but because they’re so old I always get a good look at it before I sign the register. And even if I didn’t, my signature has changed quite a bit since I was 18. It’s now a scribble and none of the old birds has ever questioned if I’m really Justin Bailey or not.
If voter fraud isn’t already rampant in NY state, it would be trivially easy to start. Every year, it feels like I’m getting away with something. My voter registration card says DEMOCRATIC PARTY on it in big letters but I don’t think requiring ID is some big attempt at disenfranchisement. I’d actually support it myself.
Phhhbt. When will you silly liberals realize that registering the poor to vote is Un-American!
Um, not to take the wrong side in this, but the history of voter fraud in the United States is well-documented. If you’d like to know more, read The Boss and the Machine, or if you’d like a more recent account, What Hath God Wrought, by Daniel Walker Howe.
The voting fraud problem was largely addressed by requiring registration to vote, and requiring a physical address, to which verification could be delivered, and requiring a signature at the polling place, as well as challenge-affadavit ballots. It’s not impossible to commit voter-impersonation fraud now, but the price of getting ten votes that way is about the same as the price of thirty seconds of television during prime time. The Bush Administration did everything humanly possible to prove widespread voter fraud, including firing US Attorneys who found no grounds for proceding (remember that one?), and came up empty. There has not been a single case of voter fraud sufficient to influence an election in decades. The few individuals who have been convicted of voter fraud are usually mentally ill.
You’re the one claiming having ID is uncommon. Please show me your numbers.
Really really really? You should have read the thread before replying and I quote myself:
So yeah. You still want to claim getting an ID is easier than 10 mile drive?
I ask you as well. If the car was broken down, or I needed the money for that to eat, or just didn’t have it.
Should I be denied a vote? Why? Why are you okay with taking away people’s vote? Is being rural poor some kind of crime?
No, I didn’t. I didn’t ask you specifically anything, and what I did ask the first time was why anyone thought the thing listed in the OP would help only the GOP. The second time I was more specific and more or less directed the quesitons to Dio (who couldn’t be bothered to answer) but if you’d like to have a go at it?
I would think it would be obvious to any but the most base idiot that I have no idea whether or not these reforms are non-partisan, seeing as how I don’t understand why the groups listed in the OP would be considered to be only Democratic. Add to that the fact that you made a particularly idiotic leap of “logic” - that my asking questions must mean that I am right-wing - and you have the reasons why I’m not bothering with any of that. That you feel that my specific questions are ambiguous and nonsense merely proves to me once again that there is no reason to try to have anything approaching an intelligent conversation with someone who believes what he wants to and LALALALALA’s away that which he doesn’t.
Aaaand, again. You do realize that a left wing person would come to that same conclusion, right? I have to hope that not all of them are lock step believing the same shit you apparently do.
I am neither “left” nor “right” because I think for myself and therefore have “left” opinions on some things, and “right” opinions on others. My opinion on you from the evidence here is that you believe that anyone who does not agree with you on any given subject must be your direct opposite, and should be shouted down as soon as possible. Whether or not they actually are in opposition to you.
Ah. Glad I have a passport.
Yeah, I see I messed that up. I intended to quote the last sentence in your post and then ended up with something from Ca3799.
[QUOTE=Ca3799]
We (American’s) don’t recognize or use the term “bank card” the way you do. To us, a “bank card” is a credit card. To you, it is obviously some form of government ID.
[/QUOTE]
It’s the card that connects to my bank account, and that I use to pay for stuff and withdraw money at the ATM and so forth. There is no credit on mine, but that’s a personal preference. I could apply for some.
[QUOTE=constanze]
Your bank card is a picture ID? And recognized as ID when you buy liquor or whatever? You can show your bank card to a cop when he asks for ID?
Because in Germany, I have to show my national ID (Personalausweis) when opening a bank account, but there’s no picture and it doesn’t count as “government-issued ID”. When in my job or elsewhere people are asked for ID (for age or as safety deposit or when getting a library card or similar) only three kinds are accepted:
[/QUOTE]
Bought liquor with it yes, but that’s not really relevant: it has my birth date on it, , and my picture, so I can use it to buy stuff with age-limits. They don’t really care who I am in particular, so long as whoever I am over 18/20. It helps that there are no private booze vendors in Norway (wrap your brain around that one for government oppression, folks.)
Here (Norway) we don’t have a separate national ID, we just use passports for that. If you have a national ID, then of course you don’t need passports. America has nothing, which confuses the hell out of me.
Oh, I’ve never been stopped by a cop. They really only do that when you drive, so I’d give him my driving license in that case. If I stopped on the street (for being drunk and unruly, say) I imagine my bank card would do just fine.
I’m as surprised as you are, actually, since I didn’t know that card was so widely accepted when I got it. Obviously, it only works in Norway. Whenever I pop across any borders, I bring…wait for it…my passport. (we even have that big scary border with Russia, though I think you still need visas for that, at least I did the only time I went.)
Hah! Ever been to Pennsylvania?
And that, my dear Surlycoat, is exactly why you are missing it. That is the crux of the biscuit, thats what the whole issue is about.
It is not that those groups are wholly Democrat, or even predominately so, but that is most likely the case. If they were but slightly more Dem than Pubbie, we would be precisely in the same spot. It is precisely why the Bushiviks tried to make voter fraud the flesh-eating zombie threat, why ACORN was publicly murdered.
ACORN wasm’t doing anything all that dramatic, politics wise. Its just that every year, they registered a few thousand more, here and there, and a few thousand more the year after that, and so on and so forth. They were doing the hard slog work of politics, getting out there. Even many on the left condescended to them, sure, they were doing the Lord’s work, but even if the Lord didn’t do it, it wouldn’t matter much.
But it did. The numbers are creeping up against the Republicans anyway. So, who to blame. You know for sure they won’t blame themselves or their policies, because they know, as a matter of faith, that America is a center right country, and the vast silent majority is on their side. Theres one big problem with that, it just ain’t so.
Problem is compounded by gerrymandering, carving up political districts for political advantage The goal of creative gerrymandering is not always to create solidly partisan districts, that only goes so far. The smarter goal is to carve up districts where a few are decidedly Dem, and those can be written off, if the rest of the districts can be carved up so that the Pubbies have a slight but persistent majority.
And ACORN was fucking with that. Slowly but Shirley, they were eroding those districts Pubbie advantage, and that was doom writ large.
Now, you can’t come out and say you are against voter registration. So, what to do, what to do? AHA! You are opposed to voter fraud, you’re only intention in making it more difficult for someone to vote who hasn’t before is to protect the pristine purity of our voter rolls! Perfect!
Now, perhaps there are any number of Republicans who believe this nonsense, so, in a way, they are somewhat innocent. But there are sure as shootin’ Pubbies who know this shit won’t fly, and are acting strictly from partisan cynicism. If they fight fair, they lose. Maybe they will do almost anything not to corrupt the political system, but they will do anything not to lose. And that includes trying to use the US Attorneys to further their ends. That includes trying to prevent people from voting.
If you don’t understand the demographics that underline this issue, you don’t understand that issue at all. And if you don’t understand, and refuse to find out, then please shut up.
For 26 years, in several different states, and not a single one operates on “the honor system.”
Thank you for this opportunity to fight ignorance.
If the Republicans are so concerned about voter fraud why don’t they target the area subject to the most fraud? Mail in ballots. Everywhere they can they are making people go through more hoops to get picture ID’s and prove who they are at the polls, but for some reason they’ve left mail in ballots completely untouched? Why would that be?
More Republican votes are made with mail in ballots than Democratic votes, so if there is any fraud there it works out to their favor so it’s OK.
The issue isn’t voter fraud. They aren’t concerned about that really. They are concerned about people voting for Democrats, so they need to do something about that.
I’m bewildered. Voter fraud would be doing that and going to a precinct that is not yours, and saying that you are Justin Bailey, and you just moved here. Or going to your precinct doing that and going back later (cause old people forget) and saying that you are Justin C. Bailey, not to be confused with Justin Bailey. In neither case will you be on their rolls, and you’ll likely have to cast a provisional ballot that will fail validation.
I suppose someone could wander in at random, armed with your name, and address, and squiggle, and vote for you. That’s hardly trivial.
I still don’t get what you think you’re getting away with.
So, what you are saying here is you think it is likely that those groups are predominately Democrat and your post is your cite?
Uh huh. Snipping more of the same here.
Yeah :rolleyes: I ask questions, get insulted, get accused of being a radical and then you tell me I’m refusing to find out the answers to my questions? As well as making all kinds of illogical assumptions from the little I’ve said here.
Do all radial left wing folk act like you and septimus? “God dammit, don’t you DARE question my beliefs!!!”
Here, lets try this - just answer one question, you can pick any one you like. I won’t even ask for cites, unless the answer is really illogical.
Why would the League of Women Votes be registering mostly Democrats?
Why is it a good idea to register people to vote the day of the election?
Why would those folks be mostly Democrats?
Why is it a good idea to allow felons to vote?
Why would anyone assume felons are largely Democrat?
Why do 25% of AA’s not have ID?
The guys who smell good and have the wobbly parts are smarter. I have this on the very best authority.
Its the thirteenth step. They give you another medallion and you burn your ID. Nobody remembers why, its tradition.
You are an asshole - I have this on the very best authority. And you are making the left look really bad.
Sure, but I’m right. Which is all that really matters to me, because… well, I’m an asshole.
Why is it not?
Look, I’ve no problem with not allowing felons who are currently in prison to vote. I’ve a bit greater of a problem with not allowing felons on parole from prison to vote, but not one that’s insurmountable.
I’ve a tremendous problem with not allowing a felon to vote who has paid his price to society, and who is working his way back into society, and into acceptance by society, and into his own acceptance that he is a member of society. Not allowing him to vote is bullshit. It’s simply saying, “We’ll never accept you back.” It’s not very encouraging.
As far as I can tell, that number appeared out of nowhere. Let’s assume it’s accurate . . .
No car. No bank account. No need to travel out of the country. Old enough that they don’t get carded for smokes or liquor, if they buy either. Anything else?