# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/181 "2013-07-08T19:17:56Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > **Bricker** , I don’t really want to join the pile on, but I would like to understand how nuanced your views are. If it could be proven to you via a controlled study that using the high resolution invasive sonogram equipment does not lessen the rate that abortions were carried out, would you, personally, be willing to get rid of the statute? How about if I was able to show that the lower resolution external sonograms were just as (in)effective at reducing the abortion rate, would you be willing to throw away Virginia’s statute that mandates the internal probe in favor of something less invasive? Yes, and yes. > [@](#): > > After all, if Conservatives were truly concerned reducing the number of abortions, they would not be so against sex education or birth control programs. These two programs, whatever else they do, have been consistently shown to reduce abortions. I don’t oppose sex education or birth control programs. > [@](#): > > It seems to me, many conservatives would rather our young women and men go out into the world ignorant of their options and risks and vulnerable to their turbo-charged reproductive drive. I do understand that Catholics (you are Catholic, correct?) are also against birth control, but their stance against sex education is mystifying if they really want to make abortion more rare. Regardless of why they have these beliefs, I am sure you agree that one group of whatever denomination should not be able to foist their religious beliefs about birth control on the rest of the country, right? Catholics regard many kinds of birth control as sinful. But between the murder of an unborn child and the small sin that birth control might constitute, there is no contest. As for my own views, I don’t regard birth control as a matter for legislation at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/182 "2013-07-08T22:06:58Z")
When a auto plant begins the assembly line with the frame and adds about one tenth of the designed components, it isn’t a “car”. You could stretch the point and call it an “incomplete car”, but then so would a huge pile of car parts on the loading dock. An “uborn child” is not a baby. A baby is cute enough so we let it live even as it urps up on our last clean shirt. Again. Your “unborn child” is not a neutral nominative, but a theological statement. That I and many, many others do not share. I have no problem respecting your opinions…well, some of them at least…but see no reason at all why I should pretend that dogma is fact, and I am obligated to address it as fact. TL:DR “Unborn child”, my ass! ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/183 "2013-07-08T22:14:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …murder of an unborn child… Where did you come up with this notion that abortion is murder and that a fetus is a child? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/184 "2013-07-08T22:42:51Z")
Wouldn’t it be something? Say all the American women joined in total political solidarity and passed a bunch of new laws about men. Say, all the guys that are already circumscribed are compelled to undergo plastic surgery to reverse it, and those that aren’t must perform the operation with a can opener. And the reason is because God said so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/185 "2013-07-08T23:16:30Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Where did you come up with this notion that abortion is murder and that a fetus is a child? From the same church that puts a woman’s value below a man’s or even a fetus’s. From his own choice to give whole and complete and unquestioning obeisance to everything a bunch of old perverts in Rome tells him to believe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/186 "2013-07-09T02:50:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I haven’t made any particularly strong arguments . . . Never to my recollection, no. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/187 "2013-07-09T11:34:04Z")
“I’d very much like to anally probe @govwalker each time he needs to make an “informed decision.” — Comedian Sarah Silverman, who took to Twitter on Sunday to criticize Gov. Scott Walker’s signing of a bill that mandates ultrasounds for women seeking abortions. Read more: [In Case You Missed It: Scott Walker on abortion and an ode to cheeseheads](http://host.madison.com/news/local/in-case-you-missed-it-scott-walker-on-abortion-and/article_bd99c728-e80f-11e2-99f1-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz2YXyRnGJb) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/188 "2013-07-09T13:52:10Z")
And the soap opera continues. Local Madison paper is reporting that [a federal judge has blocked enforcement of the abortion bill.](http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/health_med_fit/judge-temporarily-blocks-enforcement-of-new-abortion-law/article_66ee80c3-896f-57ba-904f-c3f9ac7d3b6c.html) “A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order Monday evening to block enforcement of a new Wisconsin law that bans doctors who lack admitting privileges at nearby hospitals from performing abortions.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/189 "2013-07-09T14:01:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I agree that voter ID in a vacuum, is reasonable. But other countries have near universal ID posession. In the US it isn’t the same. > Now if you want to insure that we have near universal ID posession, and then require it for voting, sure. Good on you, in fact. > > The difference is that Republican laws shooting for ID aren’t doing that. They’re depending on the lack of IDs among the poor and minorities to give them electoral advantage. They have said as much. Blacks and the poor are citizens, and they deserve a vote as much as you, Bricker, or I do. > > We killed smallpox, we can get everyone an ID, lets get that done before requiring it to vote, yes? I’d agree that enacting a voter ID law overnight could be considered immoral, but as long as there is sufficient lead time-- say 2 years-- that gives everyone plenty of time to get their ID lined up in order to vote. If you can’t be arsed to get an ID, that’s your problem, not mine or anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/190 "2013-07-09T14:02:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. My other points stand: the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists was not making a medical determination about the best interests of the unborn child. How do you figure? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/191 "2013-07-09T14:11:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. My other points stand: the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists was not making a medical determination about the best interests of the unborn child. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How do you figure? Because (and admittedly I am no doctor) an outcome in which the patient lives is usually preferred to an outcome in which the patient dies. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/192 "2013-07-09T14:17:37Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Where did you come up with this notion that abortion is murder and that a fetus is a child? It’s simply my view. But since there is support for this view amongst many others, including the legislative members, it’s a view that carries some significance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/193 "2013-07-09T14:20:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d agree that enacting a voter ID law overnight could be considered immoral, but as long as there is sufficient lead time-- say 2 years-- that gives everyone plenty of time to get their ID lined up in order to vote. If you can’t be arsed to get an ID, that’s your problem, not mine or anyone else’s. Agreed. A get-it-done inside three months timeframe would, I am now convinced, serve to improperly limit some voters. So my proposed standard is: at least one election must pass between the creation of a voter ID requirement and its implemetation. This would allow aggrieved voters to cast out politicians who had enacted Voter ID, and allow sufficient time for voters to get the ID. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/194 "2013-07-09T14:22:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because (and admittedly I am no doctor) an outcome in which the patient lives is usually preferred to an outcome in which the patient dies. You’re not a doctor. It’s revolting you feel that you can have a say in the medical decisions of grown women. That’s part of the anti-abortion stance. Adult women are viewed as immoral children who must be overruled by their betters lest they kill babies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/195 "2013-07-09T14:32:47Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > You’re not a doctor. It’s revolting you feel that you can have a say in the medical decisions of grown women. That’s part of the anti-abortion stance. Adult women are viewed as immoral children who must be overruled by their betters lest they kill babies. Let’s not go overboard here. Unless you are willing to agree to abortion on demand at any time during the pregnancy (and few of us are), then you are having a say in the medical decisions of a grown woman. I think there are a lot of people who truly believe that abortion is murder, and that has nothing to do with misogyny. I would count **Bricker** in that camp. Sure, there are lots of misogynist pro-Lifers out there, and I’ll be at least some of the legislators who enacted this law fall in that category. But let’s not paint with too broad a brush. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/196 "2013-07-09T14:35:32Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > You’re not a doctor. It’s revolting you feel that you can have a say in the medical decisions of grown women. That’s part of the anti-abortion stance. Adult women are viewed as immoral children who must be overruled by their betters lest they kill babies. Wisconsin State Senator Mary Lazich argued during floor debate over this bill that women have a “right to know what they are carrying in their womb," and that the ultrasound procedure gives “full information,” to women since the bill mandates that the doctor explain the bodily features revealed in the ultrasound. Since you seem incapable of understanding that this is not a stance that arises out of animus towards women, perhaps you will be mollified to learn that Senator Mary Lazich is, by all accounts, a woman. Would you like the names of other women who also voted for the bill? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/197 "2013-07-09T15:02:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s not go overboard here. Unless you are willing to agree to abortion on demand at any time during the pregnancy (and few of us are), then you are having a say in the medical decisions of a grown woman. > > I think there are a lot of people who truly believe that abortion is murder, and that has nothing to do with misogyny. I would count **Bricker** in that camp. Sure, there are lots of misogynist pro-Lifers out there, and I’ll be at least some of the legislators who enacted this law fall in that category. But let’s not paint with too broad a brush. I completely disagree with you. I think many anti-abortionists are very much motivated by a hatred of women. Many of the same Republicans who are so very much against abortion are quite in favor of the death penalty and very much against things like food stamps and medicaid that really do save lives. They dislike the idea of women having ultimate veto power over pretty much anything, let alone childbearing. As for Bricker, however polite, I find his beliefs on this issue utterly horrifying. For example he believes that even an ectopic pregnancy (where a woman’s life is literally in danger) must be done in accordance with his specified religious beliefs. He has told me so multiple times. I had an ectopic pregnancy a few years ago. The standard treatment for said ectopic is many cases is a shot in the rear that dissolves the fertilized egg. This is treatment that I underwent along with blood tests over several weeks to determine if the egg had dissolved fully and you know no longer potentially literally threated my life. The lunatic Catholic belief is that even a fucking ectopic is a human life form. The prescribed Catholic treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is not a shot in the rear as most OB’s will do. It is surgery and removal of the fallopian tube in question. So under his precepts – where even a goddamned fertilized egg that implants in the wrong place and directly threatens a woman’s life – a woman must adhere to that belief and undergo unnecessary surgery and literal loss of a body part. We are writing about literally overruling accepted medical procedure and forcing women into surgery that could be prevented. Why? Solely to pay homage to the delusion that all fertilized eggs are the same as living, breathing women. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/198 "2013-07-09T15:09:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wisconsin State Senator Mary Lazich argued during floor debate over this bill that women have a “right to know what they are carrying in their womb," and that the ultrasound procedure gives “full information,” to women since the bill mandates that the doctor explain the bodily features revealed in the ultrasound. > > Since you seem incapable of understanding that this is not a stance that arises out of animus towards women, perhaps you will be mollified to learn that Senator Mary Lazich is, by all accounts, a woman. Would you like the names of other women who also voted for the bill? The implication is that any woman who desires an abortion is a stupid little twat who doesn’t understand what’s in her own body. That’s pretty condescending in my book. So some women hate women who might want to get an abortion. Color me shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/199 "2013-07-09T15:12:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s simply my view. That you hold this view is not my question, I am genuinely curious how you arrived at this opinion. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/200 "2013-07-09T15:15:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wisconsin State Senator Mary Lazich argued during floor debate over this bill that women have a “right to know what they are carrying in their womb," and that the ultrasound procedure gives “full information,” to women since the bill mandates that the doctor explain the bodily features revealed in the ultrasound. > > Since you seem incapable of understanding that this is not a stance that arises out of animus towards women, perhaps you will be mollified to learn that Senator Mary Lazich is, by all accounts, a woman. Would you like the names of other women who also voted for the bill? Oh you ever so polite smug little fucker. **Bricker** I understand pro-life women. I’ve been pregnant twice. I understand the glories of pregnancy as well as the miseries. I was very happy with the healthy pregnancies I had. My hair was gloriously shiny and people treated me with kindness and respect once I started to really show. My husband and I marveled at the baby’s kicks and spent days planning the nursery and picking out names. I understand the impulse to want to protect the fetus and I’ve quite a few decision in my life that were about doing just that. I didn’t have a single glass of wine during either of my pregnancies. I took pre-natals even though they made me nauseous. I ate as much broccoli as I could tolerate even though the bitterness was even worse than the pre-natals. A wanted pregnancy is a fabulous thing. I fully get women who have been pregnant and come out of the experience awed and pro-life. But this bill isn’t about anything but making life harder for women to get abortions. You and your ilk are trying to accomplish by fiat what even you admit you can’t accomplish legally. You can’t get people to agree that abortion should be made illegal even in the first three months. So you lobby for these petty little laws that exist not to give full information or help women. They exist to remind women that you are revolted at their decisions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=11)