# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/301 "2013-07-10T21:09:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I regard the First Amendment as pivotal to this: it allows me to try to convince others of the merits of my position. And while the task with respect to abortion itself has not yet borne fruit, at least several states are mandating ultrasound so that at least the expectant mothers can see the life they are ending. > > So, I’m happy with that. > > You, in contrast, seem to want to me to stop exercising my First Amendment freedoms. What kinds of unnecessary medical procedures does the First Amendment allow me to force upon people who disagree with _my_ positions? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/302 "2013-07-10T21:15:18Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > What kinds of unnecessary medical procedures does the First Amendment allow me to force upon people who disagree with _my_ positions? I vote Turkey Drumstick Anal Palpations™. Which, unsurprisingly, is pretty much what it sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/303 "2013-07-10T21:15:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not at all. I want you to be a reasonable human being. But because you outsource your morality to a bunch of stinking bumpkins from the first century, I suspect this is a lost cause. > > The only public good caused by banning abortion is by making Christians happy. A good Christian and a good American should realize, that enforcing their specific religious beliefs on others is wrong, because America shouldn’t favor one religion over others. > > You are putting your religious dogma (which is just asinine, by the way) forward as something people who don’t agree with you must live with. > > You are asking non Catholics to live by your religion’s tenets, and nothing could be further from the American ideals. > > Simply put, you want your religion’s beliefs to be law, when you’d rebel horribly if another religion’s were. You’re a hypocrite. > > Which most of us in this thread knew. 😃 So… you want me to stop exercising my First Amendment rights? Or you’re fine with me exercising them, as long as I say what you want me to say? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/304 "2013-07-10T21:18:00Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > What kinds of unnecessary medical procedures does the First Amendment allow me to force upon people who disagree with _my_ positions? It seems like kind of a long post to you to describe how laws are made in this country. Are you sure you can’t just Google it? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/305 "2013-07-10T21:18:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So… you want me to stop exercising my First Amendment rights? Or you’re fine with me exercising them, as long as I say what you want me to say? No, I want you to realize that trying to legislate others to live by your particular religious beliefs, is un-American. But I guess you really don’t care about America, as a concept, so long as it plays by Vatican rules. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/306 "2013-07-10T21:19:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems like kind of a long post to you to describe how laws are made in this country. Are you sure you can’t just Google it? This is Bricker’s way of saying, “If it gets put into law, it’s morally right!” He’s funny that way. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/307 "2013-07-10T21:49:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My father was Salvadoran, basically mestizo with Indian ancestry. Why does that count as white? Ah, that would be the ‘other factors’ then. 😛 Hey, I don’t make up the rules, I just use 'em. I couldn’t remember for sure where your family was from, it coulda been Brazil for all of me. But the majority of US-born people who list themselves ethnically as Hispanic also list themselves racially as white. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/308 "2013-07-10T21:59:53Z")
The last abortion I had was when I was 4 weeks along. They did a transvaginal ultrasound. It was uncomfortable. I’d imagine if I’d gotten pregnant by sexual assault, it could have felt traumatizing. I saw the picture. It wasn’t a baby, or anything even _like_ a baby, really. I know; I’ve had two babies who I loved dearly and they grew up into awesome kids that I also love dearly. The blob on the screen? I felt nothing for it, other than a sense of dread. Took my pills and went on home to miscarry. No biggie. If I’d kept that pregnancy, and brought it to term, my kids would have suffered for it. You know, my born kids. The real ones. I don’t regret it, I never even think about it. I still cry sometimes about the cat I rescued that had feline leukemia and had to be euthanized. That cat was alive, it had feelings and a personality. The blob? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/309 "2013-07-10T22:02:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, it’s “murder” you object to! I thought you were upset about “deeply rooted in our nation’s history.” > > Conceded. “Murder” was not used in any kind of legally significant sense. > > Not sure why you think that’s hypocrisy, though – when I see someone use a word incorrectly, I correct them. It’s the foaming-at-the-mouth refusal to agree that they were wrong that creates the issue. Here, I acknowledge the error. And when they tell you they’re not using the word in a legally significant sense, you continue to insist that they use the word only in a technically accurate legal manner. Even when multiple people explain to you that they’re having a non-legal, if hyperbolic, conversation using the vernacular definition, you continue to argue. You absolutely know that “murder” is a legal term with a specific definition, so you don’t even have the excuse of ignorance for making that error, as have many people with whom you have argued vocabulary. It was deliberate and inflammatory usage. If you, deliberately and with malice aforethought, use legal terminology incorrectly, then you have no room to chide others for having conversations that happen to contain words that are sometimes used in a legal sense. That’s why I called it that, and that’s why I’ll call you on it if I see you doing it in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/310 "2013-07-10T22:10:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So… you want me to stop exercising my First Amendment rights? Or you’re fine with me exercising them, as long as I say what you want me to say? I would like you to recognize that you can exercise your rights to oppose abortion without trying to incorporate that opposition into the force of law, which is how the First Amendment is supposed to work when it comes to religion. To me, advocating that abortion be banned or restricted by law is little different than advocating that the law require all citizens to be Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/311 "2013-07-10T22:29:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But Christian first and American second, right? No. His Church, St. All-Or-Nothing’s if memory serves, said he should support adequate health care systems. It’s Republicans who oppose such things. The proper list, in order of priority, should be Republican first, then Christian, then person. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/312 "2013-07-10T22:41:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So… you want me to stop exercising my First Amendment rights? Or you’re fine with me exercising them, as long as I say what you want me to say? You can talk all you want. Proclaim to the sky your intent to eschew abortions for yourself, and exhort others to follow your example. But you have no First Amendment right to force others to submit to your religious dogma against their will. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/313 "2013-07-10T23:28:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, I want you to realize that trying to legislate others to live by your particular religious beliefs, is un-American. And yet at the same time deeply and traditionally American. We’re kinda schizo that way. How else to explain blue laws? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/314 "2013-07-10T23:31:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I would like you to recognize that you can exercise your rights to oppose abortion without trying to incorporate that opposition into the force of law, which is how the First Amendment is supposed to work when it comes to religion. To me, advocating that abortion be banned or restricted by law is little different than advocating that the law require all citizens to be Catholic. But it’s not different to me. To me, a fetus is a human being, so to me, advocating this kind of law is like insisting that we keep robbery illegal – it may coincide with my acceptance of the Seventh Commandment, but it also represents a secular principle that I want all persons to abide. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/315 "2013-07-10T23:32:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You can talk all you want. Proclaim to the sky your intent to eschew abortions for yourself, and exhort others to follow your example. But you have no First Amendment right to force others to submit to your religious dogma against their will. I have a First Amendment right to persuade the legislators. The legislators have an Article II right to pass the law. The President has an Article I right to sign it. Which one of those rights do you wish to take away? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/316 "2013-07-10T23:33:36Z")
The board started acting up as I was writing this, so my apologies if it winds up being multiposted or anything. > [@Bricker](#): > > It seems like kind of a long post to you to describe how laws are made in this country. Are you sure you can’t just Google it? That is not the question that I asked. I did try Googling to see what forms of medical procedures are considered to be persuasive speech protected by the First Amendment, but I’ve been unable to find anyone else who shares your particular views on the subject: > [@Bricker](#): > > No, I regard the First Amendment as pivotal to this: it allows me to try to convince others of the merits of my position. And while the task with respect to abortion itself has not yet borne fruit, at least several states are mandating ultrasound so that at least the expectant mothers can see the life they are ending. > > So, I’m happy with that. > > You, in contrast, seem to want to me to stop exercising my First Amendment freedoms. I am sure you’ll agree that I have just as much right to exercise my First Amendment freedoms by attempting to convince others of the merits of my positions as you do, so I’d like to know what sorts of unnecessary medical procedures could be mandated for people who want to do things that I find objectionable. You can let me worry about actually getting such a law passed, I just want to know what sorts of forced, unnecessary medical procedures the First Amendment covers. Because it’s certainly news to me that the First Amendment allows any such thing, but you’re the lawyer so you should know. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/317 "2013-07-10T23:33:57Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > And when they tell you they’re not using the word in a legally significant sense, you continue to insist that they use the word only in a technically accurate legal manner. Even when multiple people explain to you that they’re having a non-legal, if hyperbolic, conversation using the vernacular definition, you continue to argue. > > You absolutely know that “murder” is a legal term with a specific definition, so you don’t even have the excuse of ignorance for making that error, as have many people with whom you have argued vocabulary. It was deliberate and inflammatory usage. > > If you, deliberately and with malice aforethought, use legal terminology incorrectly, then you have no room to chide others for having conversations that happen to contain words that are sometimes used in a legal sense. > > That’s why I called it that, and that’s why I’ll call you on it if I see you doing it in the future. Nope, it wasn’t malice aforethought – it just slipped out. You’re right: it’s not murder, and I’ll be more careful about saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/318 "2013-07-10T23:36:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This is Bricker’s way of saying, “If it gets put into law, it’s morally right!” > > He’s funny that way. In this case, we disagree about what is morally right. Why don’t you just accept my definition of ‘moral’ and we can all stop this fussin’ and feudin’? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/319 "2013-07-11T00:50:29Z")
Because there are more of us than there are of you? Because none of us are demanding that you betray your morals by having an abortion, and we expect and insist upon the same respect from you. And this sort of bullshit is worse than simply losing politically, and refusing to admit it. This is losing politically and using legislative bullshit and flim-flam to gain an end that could not be gained in the legitimate and honest way. If this is such a great idea, why can it not be done by means other than sordid? On top of that, the only women who will suffer from these needless restrictions are those women who cannot afford to evade them. Which will be precisely those women who would make the painful choice not to bear another child because they cannot support said child. The law will mean nothing to the woman who can afford a plane ticket. Would you support abortion laws that apply only to those women who don’t have at least a gold credit card? That’s the practical effect of what you are supporting here. Perhaps forbid abortions for women with poor credit ratings? Why not, if you are willing to support laws that enforce themselves only on the vulnerable? These laws are dishonest, undemocratic, and unjust. Republican, in a word. Too bad its come to that, perhaps you can have it clean and polished later. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/320 "2013-07-11T00:55:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have a First Amendment right to persuade the legislators. The legislators have an Article II right to pass the law. The President has an Article I right to sign it. > > Which one of those rights do you wish to take away? This is bizarre. You propose a series of rights you consider fundamental. The Supreme Court has also found the right to abortion to be fundamental. So, maybe, that’s where you sit back and say that that’s one of the rights to which the power to legislate and pass and enact laws don’t apply. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=17)