# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/621 "2013-07-18T21:09:10Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > As it happens, not all religious people are anti-abortion zealots. Look at Texas: [Restrictive Abortion Bills In Texas Under Attack…by Texas Preachers!](http://www.liberalamerica.org/2013/07/16/restrictive-abortion-bills-in-texas-under-attack-by-texas-preachers/) > > This is a good thing. They sure as hell aren’t in Israel as I proved to Bricker. I would like an apology from him but as he is neither a gentleman nor a scholar, I imagine one will not be in the offing. In Bricker’s little world women contemplating an abortion should have to go to a committee and justify their actions to him. He and his cronies will then decide if the potential she-woman babykiller is worthy of having control over her own body parts. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/622 "2013-07-18T21:18:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, I’ll retract it. > > I will substitute the following: > > There will be a list. That list will contain the locations of facilities which provide free ultrasounds. > > In my view, it’s possible to imagine an inference from those facts which results in free ultrasounds for women. Is there any indication Wisconsin legislators did any research into how many abortions took place in the state and how many ultrasound machines there were in the state, to see if the latter could possibly meet the demand of the former, because if they didn’t I daresay we’re back at unsound application. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/623 "2013-07-18T21:37:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, I’m not white, and I said “a human being,” which you somehow managed to read as _of a human nature_. I hope it wasn’t the estrogen that caused that kind of confusion. And I hope it wasn’t the testosterone that caused that kind of douchiness. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/624 "2013-07-18T21:42:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. You’re merely speculating that this list will be some useless trick and won’t meaningfully direct women to free ultrasounds. While I have my concerns about these supposed free ultrasound facilities, that’s not what makes you an idiot or a liar. You’re an idiot or a liar because you have repeatedly made obviously false claims about what this law says and does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/625 "2013-07-18T22:58:12Z")
This is pretty much the pattern wherever this bullshit is being tried, isn’t it? Correct if wrong, but don’t they all slip in some ultrasound requirements and pretend with a straight face that its all about protecting the woman’s health, like those extra large janitorial closets for…health stuff. I’m seeing a pattern here. Demand ultrasounds, then offer “clinics” where free ultrasounds can be obtained, and then they get counseling on the near certainty of breast cancer as a result of unborn child murder. Kinda speaks to their attitude, they think women aren’t serious, they think that just a little persuasion will change their minds from this frivolous abortion. As if they didn’t give it any more thought than changing the brand of shampoo they use. I don’t necessarily think its because most of them suffer from testosterone poisoning. But I know plenty of women who do think that, and I’m damned if they don’t have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/626 "2013-07-18T23:39:30Z")
I haven’t read the whole thread, can somebody update me on whether the thread title is correct? The article says: > [@](#): > > The technician would have to point out the fetus’ visible organs and external features to the woman. So a naive reading would be that the thread title is accurate: in early pregnancy, a less invasive ultrasound would likely not be able to satisfy this requirement, thus mandating an invasive method. Either way the law is despicable, but I hope someone will reassure me that it is only regular despicable and not mind-breakingly monstrous. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/627 "2013-07-19T00:25:15Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > I haven’t read the whole thread, can somebody update me on whether the thread title is correct? The article says: > > So a naive reading would be that the thread title is accurate: in early pregnancy, a less invasive ultrasound would likely not be able to satisfy this requirement, thus mandating an invasive method. > > Either way the law is despicable, but I hope someone will reassure me that it is only regular despicable and not mind-breakingly monstrous. The law explicitly says that the woman may choose which type of transducer is used. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/628 "2013-07-19T00:26:30Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > While I have my concerns about these supposed free ultrasound facilities, that’s not what makes you an idiot or a liar. You’re an idiot or a liar because you have repeatedly made obviously false claims about what this law says and does. ::yawn:: Any errors I have made were unintentional and I have corrected them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/629 "2013-07-19T00:29:23Z")
The chain of Bryan’s Quick-and-Easy Ultrasounds will be sure to stock the best transducers the world’s garage sales can offer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/630 "2013-07-19T00:30:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ::yawn:: > > Any errors I have made were unintentional and I have corrected them. You’ve got a few as-yet uncorrected errors to go, but you’re tired - they can wait. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/631 "2013-07-19T00:32:25Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > LOL. And you accuse \*me \*of speculating? What’s the difference from your imagining an inference that results in free ultrasounds and my imagining it may not? > > Oh, right - It’s Okay When A Republican Does It. > > You’re wrong about the law “providing for” ultrasounds. You’re wrong about the majority being anti-abortion based on who got elected. And you’re wrong about Israel’s abortion laws. But you just can’t admit errors, can you? Believe what you want, dude, but if you’re going to post an opinion here, at least man up when it’s been shown (repeatedly) that you’ve based your opinion on incorrect information. I was wrong about the precise text of the law providing for free ultrasounds. i remain convinced that the net effect of the law’s implementation will be that women are getting free ultrasounds. I never said the majority of people were anti-abortion based on who got elected. What I said and will repeat is: in a representative democracy, the will of the people is expressed by the elected legislators. That’s not the same thing as claiming the majority of people approve of each and ever act of legislature. Could I avoid punishment at my trial for possession of marijuana if I showed the judge a poll with majority disapproval of marijuana laws? I don’t really know what specific claim I made about Israel’s abortion law that was wrong. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/632 "2013-07-19T00:33:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’ve got a few as-yet uncorrected errors to go, but you’re tired - they can wait. No, no – I have never had a problem admitting error. Let’s go. what else? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/633 "2013-07-19T00:34:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is there any indication Wisconsin legislators did any research into how many abortions took place in the state and how many ultrasound machines there were in the state, to see if the latter could possibly meet the demand of the former, because if they didn’t I daresay we’re back at unsound application. Go ahead and daresay. It’s good exercise. But your “daresay” is hardly actual evidence, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/634 "2013-07-19T00:35:31Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > They sure as hell aren’t in Israel as I proved to Bricker. I would like an apology from him but as he is neither a gentleman nor a scholar, I imagine one will not be in the offing. In Bricker’s little world women contemplating an abortion should have to go to a committee and justify their actions to him. He and his cronies will then decide if the potential she-woman babykiller is worthy of having control over her own body parts. Apparently you feel I should apologize for my approval of Israel’s termination committee? Um…nope. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/635 "2013-07-19T00:38:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, no – I have never had a problem admitting error. Let’s go. what else? My genuine reaction was one of laughter, so I won’t be in any particular rush. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/636 "2013-07-19T00:39:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > My genuine reaction was one of laughter, so I won’t be in any particular rush. I’m right here, kiddo. Any time. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/637 "2013-07-19T00:42:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law explicitly says that the woman may choose which type of transducer is used. Yes, but the article also says: > [@](#): > > The technician would have to point out the fetus’ visible organs and external features to the woman. In very early pregnancy, if the less invasive method is unable to show anything, is this requirement still satisfied? Or is it in effect mandating a transvaginal ultrasound, because even though women could choose the other option, they would often not get a sufficient picture to satisfy the law? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/638 "2013-07-19T00:45:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m right here, kiddo. Any time. Okay, grasshopper, do you see your error in post 549? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/639 "2013-07-19T00:46:33Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Yes, but the article also says: > > In very early pregnancy, if the less invasive method is unable to show anything, is this requirement still satisfied? Or is it in effect mandating a transvaginal ultrasound, because even though women could choose the other option, they would often not get a sufficient picture to satisfy the law? In statutory construction, _generalia specialibus non derogant_ – the general does not derogate the specific. When a law has a specific command, like the explicit mandate that women can choose which transducer – it is given more force and effect than the inferential general principle that you mention. No court has addressed the issue, since the law is brand new, but that’s the principle in play. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/640 "2013-07-19T00:49:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, grasshopper, do you see your error in post 549? Here’s post 549: > [@Bricker](#): > > Because animals are not human beings and the law correctly regards human’s right to life as paramount, and animals’ right to life as generally non-existent. There’s a grammatical error: it should be: Because animals are not human beings and the law correctly regards humans’ right to life as paramount, and animals’ right to life as generally non-existent. Apart from that, no, I see no substantive factual error. But I’m happy to learn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=33)