# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/641 "2013-07-19T01:07:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Apparently you feel I should apologize for my approval of Israel’s termination committee? > > Um…nope. You mean the one that approves of nearly all abortions and then funds them from tax dollars? That termination committee? The one that really does align with the Jewish and/or Israeli view on abortion as I correctly stated despite your smug, snide and ludicrously self-congratulatory remarks to the contrary? The one where they don’t go after private doctors who provide abortions and jail them? Nah. You just love the idea that you and a handful of your fellow religious fanatics should be appointed by the state to have power over women’s body parts. You think the women of the world should be answerable to you for their reproductive choices let those evil, not-very-bright babykillers murder their own children. The whole thing just illustrates the typical mindset of the anti-abortionists. You love humanity in the womb but often have vast contempt for it once outside. Safe and legal instead of unsafe and illegal are the only options on abortion. You would be lot happier and a lot less of a jerk if you would strop trying to force women into the later choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/642 "2013-07-19T01:09:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s post 549: > > There’s a grammatical error: it should be: > > Because animals are not human beings and the law correctly regards humans’ right to life as paramount, and animals’ right to life as generally non-existent. > > Apart from that, no, I see no substantive factual error. But I’m happy to learn. The gist of your error is that the law, on which you seem to be claiming some kind of expertise, does not “correctly regard” what you say it does, even if we were limiting ourselves to the laws of the state of Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/643 "2013-07-19T01:31:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ::yawn:: > > Any errors I have made were unintentional and I have corrected them. Then you’re an idiot, because only an idiot could be so confused by the difference between providing a service and making a list. I mean, this wasn’t something you mentioned once in passing. You spent post after post insisting that the law provided free ultrasounds when it does not. This “law provides free ultrasounds” thing seemed like a pretty big deal to you when you were trying to convince us that it was true, but now that you’ve been forced to admit that it isn’t then suddenly you’re bored with the topic. It’s certainly _interesting_ that the realization that you had badly misinterpreted this law didn’t cause you to question your support for it, but since we have already established that you’re an unusually stupid person I suppose that shouldn’t be too surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/644 "2013-07-19T01:34:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The gist of your error is that the law, on which you seem to be claiming some kind of expertise, does not “correctly regard” what you say it does, even if we were limiting ourselves to the laws of the state of Wisconsin. I use the term paramount as a comparative. Obviously the law does not place every human life over all other concerns; witness the death penalty. But as to the comparison between animal life and human life, human life is paramount. Correct? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/645 "2013-07-19T01:36:30Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Then you’re an idiot, because only an idiot could be so confused by the difference between providing a service and making a list. I mean, this wasn’t something you mentioned once in passing. You spent post after post insisting that the law provided free ultrasounds when it does not. > > This “law provides free ultrasounds” thing seemed like a pretty big deal to you when you were trying to convince us that it was true, but now that you’ve been forced to admit that it isn’t then suddenly you’re bored with the topic. It’s certainly _interesting_ that the realization that you had badly misinterpreted this law didn’t cause you to question your support for it, but since we have already established that you’re an unusually stupid person I suppose that shouldn’t be too surprising. Can you explain why you believe there is such a huge gap in meaning between what I said and what we now all agree the law says? In other words: the net effect will be that women will get free ultrasounds. Is that substantively wrong? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/646 "2013-07-19T01:40:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can you explain why you believe there is such a huge gap in meaning between what I said and what we now all agree the law says? > > In other words: the net effect will be that women will get free ultrasounds. Is that substantively wrong? The law does nothing to provide free ultrasounds- with or without the law, there will be x number of providers that offer free ultrasounds. The law adds zero providers. All the law does is make a list- nothing in the law states that any clinic must offer any free ultrasounds. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/647 "2013-07-19T01:42:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I use the term paramount as a comparative. Obviously the law does not place every human life over all other concerns; witness the death penalty. But as to the comparison between animal life and human life, human life is paramount. > > Correct? No, you don’t get to drift as it suits you between legal literalness and legal poetry. Wisconsin actually doesn’t have the death penalty (the legislature that supposedly reflects the will of the people declined to reinstate it in 2006 despite public support), but in any case if you were right that “the law” (in Wisconsin, say) regards “human’s right to life as paramount” and your contention from earlier posts that a fetus is human life is also correct, then we wouldn’t be talking about mandatory ultrasounds in Wisconsin - we might be discussing the total abortion ban in Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/648 "2013-07-19T01:55:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, you don’t get to drift as it suits you between legal literalness and legal poetry. Wisconsin actually doesn’t have the death penalty (the legislature that supposedly reflects the will of the people declined to reinstate it in 2006 despite public support), but in any case if you were right that “the law” (in Wisconsin, say) regards “human’s right to life as paramount” and your contention from earlier posts that a fetus is human life is also correct, then we wouldn’t be talking about mandatory ultrasounds in Wisconsin - we might be discussing the total abortion ban in Wisconsin. The term “paramount” was clearly not literal. This usage is not an error on my part, but I’m happy to clarify that my statement was not intended to quote any statute or case law, but was intended simply to highlight the different priorities placed by the general body of case law between human and an,al life. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/649 "2013-07-19T01:56:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The law does nothing to provide free ultrasounds- with or without the law, there will be x number of providers that offer free ultrasounds. The law adds zero providers. All the law does is make a list- nothing in the law states that any clinic must offer any free ultrasounds. Yes. I agree. The only point I am currently defending is that a woman seeking an abortion will be able to avail herself of the extant free ultrasound options in the state. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/650 "2013-07-19T02:00:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. I agree. The only point I am currently defending is that a woman seeking an abortion will be able to avail herself of the extant free ultrasound options in the state. Wasn’t she free to do that _before_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/651 "2013-07-19T02:06:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The term “paramount” was clearly not literal. This usage is not an error on my part, but I’m happy to clarify that my statement was not intended to quote any statute or case law, but was intended simply to highlight the different priorities placed by the general body of case law between human and an,al life. Well, I’m glad you’re now recognizing the value of qualifiers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/652 "2013-07-19T02:13:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wasn’t she free to do that _before_? Yes. The law simply makes it easier to locate these resources by mandating the list. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/653 "2013-07-19T02:13:50Z")
Except maybe for the last few words of that last sentence, which I don’t…actually, I probably don’t want to know… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/654 "2013-07-19T02:41:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. The law simply makes it easier to locate these resources by mandating the list. So they make a process deliberately difficult and make one small aspect of it slightly easier in a very limited way that could be rendered moot by factors outside the government’s control and in which they show no interest, to “provide for” something that already existed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/655 "2013-07-19T02:49:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So they make a process deliberately difficult and make one small aspect of it slightly easier in a very limited way that could be rendered moot by factors outside the government’s control and in which they show no interest, to “provide for” something that already existed. You make it sound so dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/656 "2013-07-19T02:52:42Z")
This is a bad law, Bricker. I get that it’s a real “ends justify the means” moment for you, but this isn’t like adding extra taxes on cigarettes; this is monkeying around with sound medical practices at the expense of people who are facing very hard choices and when women who _want_ to keep their babies can’t get full prenatal care because the ultrasound machines are being wasted, I hope Wisconsin Republicans will be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/657 "2013-07-19T02:57:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > This is a bad law, Bricker. I get that it’s a real “ends justify the means” moment for you, but this isn’t like adding extra taxes on cigarettes; this is monkeying around with sound medical practices at the expense of people who are facing very hard choices and when women who _want_ to keep their babies can’t get full prenatal care because the ultrasound machines are being wasted, I hope Wisconsin Republicans will be happy. I don’t agree that will happen. And I don’t agree it’s a bad law. What I think is that those people who supposedly favor choice are terrified that abortion-minded women will see their baby’s face in 3D ultrasound and become emotionally committed to keeping the child. That’s just speculation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/658 "2013-07-19T03:03:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can you explain why you believe there is such a huge gap in meaning between what I said and what we now all agree the law says? I _could_, but what’s the point? The providing a service vs. making a list distinction has already been explained to you multiple times. I can’t expect to succeed where others have failed. There’s no explanation I could give that will cure you of being an idiot and/or a slimy little weasel who’s incapable of defending his own beliefs honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/659 "2013-07-19T03:10:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree that will happen. And I don’t agree it’s a bad law. I know you don’t (or wouldn’t admit if you did), so even if I went over all your posts in this thread and raised numerous objections ranging from nitpicky to serious, it wouldn’t matter because if this seems like good legislation to you, then you’re too far removed from what I’d consider a rational position for me to ever try to reach you through argument, and since I wouldn’t get any satisfaction out of just insulting you, there’s nothing further I can do. > [@](#): > > What I think is that those people who supposedly favor choice are terrified that abortion-minded women will see their baby’s face in 3D ultrasound and become emotionally committed to keeping the child. > > That’s just speculation, of course. You’re speculating this will be an instant emotional bond, I gather. She’ll see the face (assuming there’s a face to see, many abortions are performed well before the “face” stage) and -bam- maternal love? Then why is there a mandatory 24-hour wait between ultrasound and abortion? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/660 "2013-07-19T03:33:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I know you don’t (or wouldn’t admit if you did), so even if I went over all your posts in this thread and raised numerous objections ranging from nitpicky to serious, it wouldn’t matter because if this seems like good legislation to you, then you’re too far removed from what I’d consider a rational position for me to ever try to reach you through argument, and since I wouldn’t get any satisfaction out of just insulting you, there’s nothing further I can do. > > You’re speculating this will be an instant emotional bond, I gather. She’ll see the face (assuming there’s a face to see, many abortions are performed well before the “face” stage) and -bam- maternal love? > > Then why is there a mandatory 24-hour wait between ultrasound and abortion? Because that works better. I can imagine someone becoming reluctant but going through with it because she’s there. But going home, waiting a day… that’s the best chance for the emotion to kick in, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=34)