# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/801 "2013-07-20T23:16:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I say that any law should first be passed by a majority of the houses of the state legislature and then signed by the governor. How’s that for a plan? Funnier than mine, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/802 "2013-07-21T00:04:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not a good analogy. For one, Bob is not currently attached to your kidney, but more importantly that implies a woman should be able to abort at any time, up to the time she goes into labor. Few people are going to support that. If Bob was all prepped for surgery and at the point where to not follow through with the procedure would kill him and I was all set to do my part, if I revoke my consent at that point will I be charged? And I do believe that a woman has a right to revoke consent to use her uterus at any time. How the baby (see, I can even call it a baby) is removed is between her and her doctor. It works for Canada. I’m not going to say that the majority of Canadians feel this way but enough feel that it is acceptable to ensure the political will to change it is not there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/803 "2013-07-21T00:14:35Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > If we’re gonna put any kind of hurdles in front of people for doing something legal, I say we mix it up. So you’d need a valid voter registration card to have an abortion, and you’d need to undergo a trans-vaginal ultrasound to purchase a gun. Will you need a gun to vote, just to complete the triangle? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/804 "2013-07-21T00:27:10Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > If Bob was all prepped for surgery and at the point where to not follow through with the procedure would kill him and I was all set to do my part, if I revoke my consent at that point will I be charged? Charged with what? A bad analogy? 🙂 > [@](#): > > And I do believe that a woman has a right to revoke consent to use her uterus at any time. How the baby (see, I can even call it a baby) is removed is between her and her doctor. It works for Canada. I’m not going to say that the majority of Canadians feel this way but enough feel that it is acceptable to ensure the political will to change it is not there. Well, you have an extreme view, so good luck convincing everyone else. I shudder to think that there would be a licensed doctor out there somewhere who would perform an abortion on a viable fetus when the health of the mother is not an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/805 "2013-07-21T00:41:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I shudder to think that there would be a licensed doctor out there somewhere who would perform an abortion on a viable fetus when the health of the mother is not an issue. Meh, I can see it happening but being so rare that banning it to punish a handful of cases isn’t worth it because it puts a far greater number of women at risk - women who are having late-term abortions not electively but because of serious medical problems. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/806 "2013-07-21T01:08:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Will you need a gun to vote, just to complete the triangle? I haven’t worked out all the details yet. I’d still like to get something in there with a Fireworks Permit and flag burning. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/807 "2013-07-21T01:24:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, you have an extreme view, so good luck convincing everyone else. I shudder to think that there would be a licensed doctor out there somewhere who would perform an abortion on a viable fetus when the health of the mother is not an issue. I have a greater trust in the doctor versus either the politician or regular Joe public when it ones to making medical decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/808 "2013-07-21T07:02:25Z")
> [@](#): > > A mandated ultrasound procedure at least 24 hours before an abortion procedure, though, and regardless of your opinion, can indeed represent a significant hassle to a woman who may already have children, who may have a job she can’t easily take time off of, who may not have easy transportation to facilities where these procedures are offered (and have no illusions about the attempts of Wisconsin lawmakers to reduce the number of these facilities). I had to get some medical procedures done on Thursday. These are fairly common medical procedures, and the hospital where I got them done as an outpatient is about a quarter of a mile from me. The lab was booked for a week and a half, so I had to wait 10 days before I could get them done. I had a $100 copay for the procedures. I had to follow pre-lab instructions of fasting and medication routines. For an ultrasound, you also can’t pee when you get up in the morning, IIRC. The procedures themselves took a total of about 15 minutes…but the check in process, and all the verification of insurance, and med problems, and ID, and then the waiting period took about four or five hours. And remember, this was a service that was not a free service, if it had been a free offering I’m sure that the waiting period for an open slot would have been longer, and my processing and waiting period would have been longer. I was also lucky in that I had a lab that was fairly close to me. In some of the less densely populated areas of my state, you have to drive at least five hours in order to get to someplace that can do any medical procedures other than handing the patient a couple of aspirin. A 24 hour waiting period for a “free” ultrasound might mean a delay of two weeks or more, and it might mean a considerable cost in time and money for a woman. The ultrasound requirement cannot be medically justified. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/809 "2013-07-21T11:45:26Z")
… and before long, wouldn’tcha know it, the 20 weeks are up and your legal ability to decide your own life is gone. Almost as if that were part of the idea, huh? ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/810 "2013-07-21T13:29:58Z")
It is also my understanding that many, if not all, of these so-called pregnancy counseling centers that offer free ultrasounds will refuse to forward the ultrasound results (or whatever is supposed to be forwarded) to abortion providers because they don’t want to contribute to anyone actually getting an abortion. Does anyone know if that’s true? Because if true, that list of “free ultrasound providers” could be worse than useless. What other enterprise provides free ultrasounds? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/811 "2013-07-21T13:54:49Z")
Well, as I recall, Bricker proposed a metric to test if the ultrasound requirement was useless (i.e. what if 30% of woman, upon seeing the ultrasound, changed their minds about aborting), what metric could we test to see if it is burdensome? 30% of women find they have to wait ten days or more after their ultrasounds to get an abortion appointment? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/812 "2013-07-21T14:04:42Z")
We ask\*\* Bricker\*\*. And he will tell us. Simple, really. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/813 "2013-07-21T14:18:00Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > I have a greater trust in the doctor versus either the politician or regular Joe public when it ones to making medical decisions. That’s an ethical decision first, and then a medical decision. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/814 "2013-07-21T14:34:58Z")
Doctors have ethics. They’re not lawyers, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/815 "2013-07-21T15:20:53Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > A 24 hour waiting period for a “free” ultrasound might mean a delay of two weeks or more, and it might mean a considerable cost in time and money for a woman. The ultrasound requirement cannot be medically justified. When “might” changes to “did,” I am certainly willing to reconsider my support. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/816 "2013-07-21T15:24:58Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > It is also my understanding that many, if not all, of these so-called pregnancy counseling centers that offer free ultrasounds will refuse to forward the ultrasound results (or whatever is supposed to be forwarded) to abortion providers because they don’t want to contribute to anyone actually getting an abortion. > > Does anyone know if that’s true? Because if true, that list of “free ultrasound providers” could be worse than useless. > > What other enterprise provides free ultrasounds? It’s my understanding that people opposed to this legislation are planning to post stuff they just made up, or heard from unrealible sources, in order to spread misinformation. Does anyone know if that’s true? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/817 "2013-07-21T15:25:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, as I recall, Bricker proposed a metric to test if the ultrasound requirement was useless (i.e. what if 30% of woman, upon seeing the ultrasound, changed their minds about aborting), what metric could we test to see if it is burdensome? 30% of women find they have to wait ten days or more after their ultrasounds to get an abortion appointment? He did say [30%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16465793&postcount=352) at first, then changed it to [20%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16475186&postcount=429), and then after learning about (but not acknowledging) a [study](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19340704) that found that NONE of the participants changed their minds after seeing an ultrasound he’s downgraded that to a claim that “[some](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16490523&postcount=710)” women will change their minds. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/818 "2013-07-21T15:36:05Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > He did say [30%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16465793&postcount=352) at first, then changed it to [20%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16475186&postcount=429), and then after learning about (but not acknowledging) a [study](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19340704) that found that NONE of the participants changed their minds after seeing an ultrasound he’s downgraded that to a claim that “[some](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16490523&postcount=710)” women will change their minds. Wow. I sound so flaky. I’m fine with 30%. Who is accepting that metric from your side: the claim that if 30% of women change their minds, this isn’t simply an attempt to harass and delay, but a valid piece of additional information? ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/819 "2013-07-21T15:37:29Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > He did say [30%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16465793&postcount=352) at first, then changed it to [20%](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16475186&postcount=429), and then after learning about (but not acknowledging) a [study](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19340704) that found that NONE of the participants changed their minds after seeing an ultrasound he’s downgraded that to a claim that “[some](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16490523&postcount=710)” women will change their minds. You mean he’s posting stuff he just made up, or heard from unrealible sources, in order to spread misinformation? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/820 "2013-07-21T15:58:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow. I sound so flaky. > > I’m fine with 30%. Who is accepting that metric from your side: the claim that if 30% of women change their minds, this isn’t simply an attempt to harass and delay, but a valid piece of additional information? I wouldn’t accept that, because I don’t believe the legislature has the authority to require this. But see, I don’t view abortion at this stage as “taking a human life”, and so it doesn’t matter to me how many women do or do not have such abortions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=42)