# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/101 "2013-07-06T20:14:00Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > … As well, even if the procedure is no cost to the patient there is still a cost and it is reasonable to question who is paying. Are these facilities paid for through taxes? Through private donation? Will these medically unnecessary ultrasounds take resources away from providing medically necessary ultrasounds to needy patients? Much as I think this is very bad law, I find it a touch humorous that the state may now be subsidizing abortions by paying for part of process, and a totally unnecessary part to boot. If that happens, that will be the next lawsuit by the pro-life people. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/102 "2013-07-06T21:31:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, then, perhaps this won’t be efficacious after all. I guess we’ll see. And once we see, what then? What’s the next step if this law fails to discourage enough women from having abortions? I’m no longer in Wisconsin, but during the time I was living there laws were added to require a 24-hour waiting period and an in-person anti-abortion “counseling” session before a woman could obtain an abortion. More than 90% of the counties in Wisconsin don’t even have an abortion provider, so for many women this means making two trips to another county. Yet all this has apparently failed to produce the results some people wanted, so now there’s going to be an ultrasound requirement as well. I don’t need to wait and see to know that there will continue to be women in Wisconsin who really, sincerely want to have abortions, and I don’t think the women of Wisconsin – a group that includes members of my immediate family – should be expected to keep putting up with new restrictions every few years. > [@](#): > > Maybe Wisconsin should have also mandated playing the fetal heartbeat. Would that work better? Making women jump through more hoops before getting an abortion isn’t “better”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/103 "2013-07-06T22:09:27Z")
Maybe they can make abortion legal up to 20 weeks, with a 21 week waiting period. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/104 "2013-07-06T23:40:26Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Well she already had to have something invasive done to get pregnant and will probably need something invasive done to be aborted. Do you think only virgins can get raped? Reactionaries, some of them women, had similar responses to the proposed Virginia law. It’s still an issue of consent, among many other things. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/105 "2013-07-06T23:50:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > 253.10(3): The Department of Health Services is required, under the bill, to compile a list of facilities that perform ultrasounds at no cost, make the list available to the public, and provide the list to every facility that performs or induces an abortion. > > You say they are unnecessary. I say they perform the valuable function of showing prospective mothers that what’s involved is not just an anonymous mass of tissue, but a human being. And I say that the desperation with which pro-abortion forces greet such a requirement indicates that, far from a free choice, pro-abortion people want women to make their “choice” without learning too much about how their unborn child looks. [There is a way to drastically lower the abortion rate. It’s evident looking at many other countries, but it’s also been demonstrated in the United States.](http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/study-free-birth-control-significantly-cuts-abortion-rates/) It’s also very fiscally conservative, unlike this kind of legislation. That raises (not “begs”) a question: are these people anti-abortion, or anti-sex? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/106 "2013-07-07T00:07:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which is why I said what I said: that the bill is PROBABLY not intended to punish women. Are you defining “punish” to exclude “discourage abortion”? Otherwise, you can’t possibly believe what you said. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/107 "2013-07-07T00:10:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Bricker** , does the Constitution allow the state to mandate any medical procedure that is unwanted by both patient and doctor, or just this one? Well, it allows the state to mandate executions, and a doctor might concoct the lethal injection. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/108 "2013-07-07T00:14:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I reject your premise. There are three people involved here; you mention the desires of only two of them. The law and the American people reject your premise. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/109 "2013-07-07T00:21:22Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > To be fair, the law does give an exception for medical emergencies. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So make every abortion an emergency- problem solved! Put on your belly-kicking shoes, nurse. (I’d do it myself, but, you know, Hippocratic oath.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/110 "2013-07-07T00:26:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I appreciate that. > > This law, as is my understanding, will require that some mothers to make a trip to another medical facility, perhaps not close by, for a procedure that is not medically necessary in order to obtain an abortion, which is a perfectly legal procedure. If the law required the doctor to show her existing pictures of what a fetus looked like at “x” weeks, that would not be an undue burden. I would not support such a law, but I think it would easily pass the undue burden test of _Casey_. The doctor would have such pictures readily available, and would take only a few minutes for the woman to look at. Stupid, but constitutional. So, essentially the same experience a woman gets when she goes to a false-flag “family planning” clinic for an abortion and all they do is try to talk her out of it. But nothing so intrusive as showing her an ultrasound image of her own fetus, which they certainly would do in those clinics if they could. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/111 "2013-07-07T00:29:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, then, perhaps this won’t be efficacious after all. I guess we’ll see. > > Maybe Wisconsin should have also mandated playing the **fetal heartbeat.** Would that work better? Christian-rock band name! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/112 "2013-07-07T00:53:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, essentially the same experience a woman gets when she goes to a false-flag “family planning” clinic for an abortion and all they do is try to talk her out of it. But nothing so intrusive as showing her an ultrasound image of her own fetus, which they certainly would do in those clinics if they could. Gotcha. No. I’m not sure what you found objectionable about that post. I simply stated something I thought the law would allow and also stated that I think it would be stupid, even though legal. Do you think the law, per _Casey_, would not allow such a requirement? If so, why? If not, then WTF? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/113 "2013-07-07T01:13:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. I’m not sure what you found objectionable about that post. I simply stated something I thought the law would allow and also stated that I think it would be stupid, even though legal. Do you think the law, per _Casey_, would not allow such a requirement? If so, why? If not, then WTF? Just putting it in perspective what such a law would imply; no constitutional argument. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/114 "2013-07-07T01:15:05Z")
I **do** wonder how all this is going to play out in November 2014. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/115 "2013-07-07T01:26:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know the Republican party believes in freedom, but I guess the freedom to make medical choices without [having something inserted into you](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/scott-walker-quietly-signs-bill-requiring-ultrasounds-for-wisconsin-abortions.php?ref=fpb) unnecessarily is just a step too far. Just another **gynotician**. [https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1000173\_10151506139511275\_1976755523\_n.png](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1000173_10151506139511275_1976755523_n.png) Def: A politician who knows more about women’s health care than the women and their doctors. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/116 "2013-07-07T01:54:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, then, perhaps this won’t be efficacious after all. I guess we’ll see. > > Maybe Wisconsin should have also mandated playing the fetal heartbeat. Would that work better? A fetal heartbeat has already cost at least one woman her life: > **[Inquest Confirms Savita Halappanavar's Life Was Subordinated to Non-Viable Fetus](https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2013/04/12/inquest-confirms-savita-halappanavars-life-was-subordinated-to-non-viable-fetus/)** > > This is the inevitable outcome of abortion bans. Women die. And here is a woman who very nearly died in a misguided attempt to save a nonviable baby–it had no brain: [http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/130604/el-salvador-woman-denied-abortion-delivers-dead-baby-c-section](http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/130604/el-salvador-woman-denied-abortion-delivers-dead-baby-c-section) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/117 "2013-07-07T02:12:12Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > [There is a way to drastically lower the abortion rate. It’s evident looking at many other countries, but it’s also been demonstrated in the United States.](http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/study-free-birth-control-significantly-cuts-abortion-rates/) > > It’s also very fiscally conservative, unlike this kind of legislation. That raises (not “begs”) a question: are these people anti-abortion, or anti-sex? They’re anti-woman. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/118 "2013-07-07T03:41:00Z")
Clearly. The folks who never ever get mentioned by these horrible people who pass these laws are the _fathers_. Surely there must be some way they could also be harassed and humiliated? At the very least, shouldn’t\* they\* be forced to pay for these ultrasounds? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/119 "2013-07-07T16:46:50Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > How dare you! How fucking dare you! You think any woman seeking an abortion must be unaware that the fetus is of a “human nature”??? That they’re simply uninformed as to what exactly they’re doing by making their own decision about their own lives and bodies??? So that a bunch of old white men simply MUST take control over her? > > If you truly think that, then \*this \*must be true: ANY woman who votes Republican is just exactly as stupid and incompetent as the Republican Party believes her to be. > You and your ilk make me absolutely sick. We stooped wimmins of the SDMB shall be eternally grateful to **Bricker** and his ilk for being there to tell us what’s what, since we obviously have no clue. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/120 "2013-07-07T17:09:25Z")
Much as I hate to pile on, this thread is a perfect example of how utterly odious Bricker is as a human being. Because he is generally polite people take that as if he’s rational and reasonable. But he’s far from either. The pope has his shepherd’s crook so far up Bricker’s ass it clinks against his teeth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=7)