# I pit Gov. Scott Walker for mandating the unnecessary inserting of objects into women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746 "2013-07-05T20:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1321 "2013-08-16T23:24:37Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I think there’s a very strong secular case for making abortion illegal. Okay, and it is…? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1322 "2013-08-17T01:27:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, and it is…? The obvious… nearly everyone agrees that it is wrong to kill a 1 day old baby. Therefore it is wrong to kill a baby 1 day before birth, because it is basically identical to a 1 day old baby. Then apply recursion. Like I said, I think the counterarguments are stronger and more convincing, but there are no logical FLAWS in that argument. It’s sound. I just don’t find it persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1323 "2013-08-17T02:40:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The obvious… nearly everyone agrees that it is wrong to kill a 1 day old baby. Therefore it is wrong to kill a baby 1 day before birth, because it is basically identical to a 1 day old baby. Then apply recursion. Then how do you feel about the million sperm I just murdered? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1324 "2013-08-17T02:43:16Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The obvious… nearly everyone agrees that it is wrong to kill a 1 day old baby. Therefore it is wrong to kill a baby 1 day before birth, because it is basically identical to a 1 day old baby. Then apply recursion. > Like I said, I think the counterarguments are stronger and more convincing, but there are no logical FLAWS in that argument. Sure, there are. It relies on an unproven premise - that a baby one day before birth is “basically identical” to a baby one day after birth. More specifically, it ignores the very real difference between the two. It’s like an argument that relies on a fired bullet being metallurgically “basically identical” to an unfired bullet. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1325 "2013-08-17T02:54:26Z")
I have no desire to argue for a position I disagree with, it’s exhausting and pointless. It’s just that I can not dismiss the pro-life position as irrational and baseless. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1326 "2013-08-17T03:58:31Z")
Well, I take issue with you characterizing it as “very strong”, “obvious” and without “logical FLAWS”, whether you agree with it or not, because I can casually point out where you’re wrong. That’s just how I roll. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1327 "2013-08-17T05:01:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I take issue with you characterizing it as “very strong”, “obvious” and without “logical FLAWS”, whether you agree with it or not, because I can casually point out where you’re wrong. That’s just how I roll. Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree except that we actually agree but don’t agree about why we agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1328 "2013-08-17T05:06:43Z")
Well, you can be comical if you want, but I figure you’re just wrong in giving more credit to a position than it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1329 "2013-08-17T06:04:01Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The obvious… nearly everyone agrees that it is wrong to kill a 1 day old baby. Therefore it is wrong to kill a baby 1 day before birth, because it is basically identical to a 1 day old baby. Then apply recursion. > Like I said, I think the counterarguments are stronger and more convincing, but there are no logical FLAWS in that argument. It’s sound. I just don’t find it persuasive. I would object that 1 day olds are “basically identical” to a baby 1 day before birth. As my personal threshold for human rights is birth, I have no problems aborting one and not the other. And isn’t recursion just a fancy way of saying slippery slope? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1330 "2013-08-17T23:51:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Then how do you feel about the million sperm I just murdered? None of them are a unique genetic individual. They have only the father’s genes. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1331 "2013-08-18T01:31:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > None of them are a unique genetic individual. They have only the father’s genes. So, what about the unique genetic individuals that die every month from birth control pills that prevent zygotes from implanting in the uterine wall? Are they entitled to protection by force of law? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1332 "2013-08-18T02:36:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > None of them are a unique genetic individual. They have only the father’s genes. That’s what you’d have to say if you’re a “life begins at conception” philosopher. Apparently sperm and/or eggs, while living, are not life. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1333 "2013-08-18T03:08:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > None of them are a unique genetic individual. So if a woman’s pregnant with identical twins… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1334 "2013-08-18T03:34:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > That’s what you’d have to say if you’re a “life begins at conception” philosopher. Apparently sperm and/or eggs, while living, are not life. They are life. They are not human life. They are part of a human being, but not a human being in their own right. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1335 "2013-08-18T05:00:15Z")
Is that a legal right or “in their own right” in the more casual sense? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1336 "2013-08-18T13:26:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is that a legal right or “in their own right” in the more casual sense? Casual, but it’s also true in a legal sense. If I cut off my finger, the finger is human but not “human life,” and if an assailant cuts off my finger, he’s not guilty of murder if the finger dies, ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1337 "2013-08-18T15:14:07Z")
What if you went to him specifically to have the finger removed? I’m basically mocking your efforts to distill a set of conditions in which abortion is bad while utterly ignoring the pregnant woman’s opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1338 "2013-08-18T19:39:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if you went to him specifically to have the finger removed? Then he’s not guilty of assisted suicide. > [@](#): > > I’m basically mocking your efforts to distill a set of conditions in which abortion is bad while utterly ignoring the pregnant woman’s opinion on the matter. I think murder of a born infant is bad while utterly ignoring any of those infant’s mothers’ opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1339 "2013-08-18T20:08:40Z")
Good for you. What does that have to do with abortion, though? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746/1340 "2013-08-18T20:10:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think murder of a born infant is bad while utterly ignoring any of those infant’s mothers’ opinions. Is there any difference between a born child and a fertilized ovum? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-gov-scott-walker-for-mandating-the-unnecessary-inserting-of-objects-into-women/662746.md?page=68)