# I pit helicopter parents
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 18, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434 "2014-07-18T08:16:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/41 "2014-07-18T18:35:46Z")
> [@Athena](#):
>
> It’s pretty common in some northern European/Scandinavian countries to leave kids bundled up in strollers outside in the cold (article [here](http://www.treehugger.com/culture/let-sleeping-babies-lie-chilly-temps-build-tough-nordic-tots.html)). It’s considered healthy, in fact.
>
> Also, is there evidence they were actually drunk? One drink != drunk.
They each had two drinks and the 14 month old was left for more than an hour while 2 different passerbys and the waitstaff all asked her to bring the baby in. Husband was American, they lived in Brooklyn, they knew very well what the norm is. They refused all requests. Clearly they were trying to make some kind if point but not sure what that point was. It was obvious that observers were concerned and disturbed. But numerous people spoke with the parents before authorities were called.
I honestly think leaving a kid outside is not a big deal, in an outdoor seated cafe, in mild weather, for a short time, etc, or if had been an instance of legit tourist confusion. None of that was the case here. The child was outside over an hour, it was cold, the parents were drinking, the father was a New Yorker… They made a point of refusing to bring the child inside. After a couple of tequila shots in an hour I don’t think i’d believe someone insisting their unattended baby was fine, either.
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### Author:  [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/42 "2014-07-18T18:46:37Z")
Better foster care …
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### Author:  [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/43 "2014-07-18T18:57:09Z")
Foster Care is not the pit of hell people make it out to be. Foster patents are under far more scrutiny than whilst parents. Violate the Rogers rules and not only are the foster kids taken away from the foster parent, but the foster parent loses their license and cannot take in any other foster kids.
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### Author:  [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/44 "2014-07-18T19:10:23Z")
> [@Rune](#):
>
> Most people also have some kinda of walkie-talke system.
Unless that baby has mastered push-to-talk, I think you mean baby monitor.
😉
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/45 "2014-07-18T19:50:52Z")
When I was 9 my parents were letting me take a bus 5 miles downtown to go to the public library, no escort or police guard required. And at an even younger age I was playing in the park with other shamefully abandoned children.
I can’t believe I survived to adulthood given such horrible neglect.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/46 "2014-07-18T19:56:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Are any babies harmed or killed from this?
Depends on how many polar bears are nearby.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/47 "2014-07-18T20:08:08Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#):
>
> They refused all requests. Clearly they were trying to make some kind if point but not sure what that point was.
They were trying to make the point that the baby was fine. They obviously weren’t interested in caving in to the idiotic opinions of a bunch of hand-wringing morons.
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### Author:  [@Shooby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shooby)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/48 "2014-07-18T20:12:03Z")
At 9, I was riding my bike miles away from home, along with other 9-year old kids. I’m not that old. These stories are bizarre, and sad. A family ruined for this bullshit?
Come on Southern Baptists, if gay marriage is ruining families, you might also try declaring war on these busybodies that are actually wrecking homes and the system that’s actually playing along with it.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/49 "2014-07-18T20:16:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> ETA:And it’s Inuit.
Depends on where you are. Last I heard Alaskan natives prefer Eskimo since many of them are not Inuit. It’s Canadian propaganda. 😃
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/50 "2014-07-18T20:29:24Z")
I was sometimes walking alone to and from school (about a mile away) from first grade to 8th . That would have made me … 5 or 6 years old.
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### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/51 "2014-07-18T20:50:13Z")
Given that the infant mortality and estimated childhood mortality rates are lower in Denmark than in the US, perhaps they are onto something. Sure, being US born and bred, I might find it strange, but that doesn’t make it bad/wrong. That said, leaving them outside for fresh air on a NYC block might be defeating the purpose of leaving them outdoors.
I, too, was one of those kids who would be told “Go outside and play”. But that’s different from being left at a park all day while Mom was at a work shift (figure 4 - 8 hours), which is what happened with the 9 year old. I had a small area I was not supposed to leave, and other families on the block who also told their kids “Go outside and play”, and while not watching over them like a hawk also were not completely ignoring them. The question becomes at what point is one teaching self-reliance, and at what point is one neglecting overall parental duties. Either way, arresting and jailing the mother is just stupid. Police all over the nation seem to be so quick to handcuff and arrest and jail anyone and let someone else figure it out. Not being a policeman, it could be that those are the orders from TPTB, but it’s simply more zero-tolerance nonsense and passing the buck on true responsibility.
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### Author:  [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/52 "2014-07-18T21:37:57Z")
> [@Calatin](#):
>
> So, were babies or carriages not allowed inside?
If a kid is bundled for winter weather and asleep, taking them inside give you a choice of either overheating them badly, or undressing them, which will wake them up.
> [@Rune](#):
>
> . . . Normally you’d check on the baby once in a while (and mothers have supernatural hearing abilities when it comes to their babies crying) . . .
Also, for an infant, crying is a full body event. You can see the jerky movements.
Not that I don’t think the parents shouldn’t have mollified the natives at some point before they got arrested. Winter air aside, I can’t see how getting arrested is a good thing.
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### Author:  [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/53 "2014-07-19T03:20:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> I can’t believe I survived to adulthood given such horrible neglect.
Plenty of people say this, but a lot of people who grew up in earlier eras knew more kids who died or got into really bad accidents. See [this really interesting thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=718813) about misplaced nostalgia (it didn’t start that way, but it meandered its way there).
I’m not saying that helicopter parenting is a good thing, and it’s certainly not necessary to the survival of our species. But it sure seems like a good way to ensure that \*your particular offspring \*lives wholly and healthily to maturity.
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### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/54 "2014-07-19T03:35:46Z")
But does maturity(beyond physical maturity) actually happen? And secondly, is it actually safer? Two recent examples locally where I live come to mind. TWo eight year olds. One, his mom didn’t grab his hand quickly enough for some reason and he darted out into traffic. When I was 8, the only time that happened is if we were chasing a ball or something and the street wasn’t normally busy, making us careless. None of us would have run right into heavy traffic, completely unaware of the danger. But if all you know by eight is, “Hold mommy’s hand and just go where she takes you”, then you have no clue what to do if mommy slips up and forgets to take your hand.
The second example is an 8-year old who got on the wrong schoolbus after school. He got dropped off in an unfamiliar neighborhood. A cop found him just wandering around with no idea what to do(he didn’t even know to approach the policeman for help, the cop had to go to him). When I was 8, I knew my neighborhood pretty well, as well as other neighborhoods adjacent to it in the school zone. I also knew what kind of people I could go to for help if I was lost. If I wasn’t lost, it was just a long walk home. But if you’re 8, and adults are telling you what to do every minute of your life and you never have to think for yourself, that’s what happens.
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### Author:  [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/55 "2014-07-19T04:08:24Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> An 11-year old isn’t in danger of dying in a hot car because he can do something called “open a window” or “open the door”.
The mother said she child-locked the doors and took the keys. So, he might not have been able to open the doors or windows.
[We had a thread about this not too long ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=728054).
More and more modern cars are being equipped so that they cannot be opened from the inside if you lock them using the remote. And without the key, power windows won’t work. Of course, it could also be the case that on this model minivan, he could have unlocked the front doors, but there have been cases of people being locked inside, too.
Now I agree an 11-year old left alone in the car on a cool day is probably OK for a short period of time, especially if the doors are locked and the alarm is set. I don’t think the mom did anything dangerous or irresponsible. She shouldn’t have been dragged through the court system or faced having her kid taken away. The incident caused the family more trauma than if somebody had just minded their own business. When I was that age, my father would even leave the key in the car so I could listen to the radio while he ran into the bank or wherever he had to stop. He trusted me not to try to start the car or fool around with anything in it and nobody ever thought anything about it back then.
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### Author:  [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/56 "2014-07-19T04:47:03Z")
> [@Rune](#):
>
> It’s all about clothing mate. The baby was probably wearing a fullbody ‘flyverdragt’ ([flyverdragt - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=flyverdragt&tbm=isch)) and packed in a duvet inside an insulated baby carriage. …
The 4th picture on the link you gave is wonderful - the rainbow one. 🙂 I want an adult-sized one for me, oh yes.! Not for now, obviously - it’s stupidly hot these days - but think what a happy cosy winter I could have. Damn- I just Googled for “flyverdragt”, and I learn that it boringly means “snowsuit”. Sod it, I prefer that exotic _flyverdragt_ word and at least I have many months until winter in which to learn its pronunciation. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/57 "2014-07-19T08:00:11Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> And secondly, is it actually safer?
Doesn’t seem so: [The Overprotected Kid](http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/hey-parents-leave-those-kids-alone/358631/)
> [@Celyn](#):
>
> The 4th picture on the link you gave is wonderful - the rainbow one. 🙂 I want an adult-sized one for me, oh yes.! Not for now, obviously - it’s stupidly hot these days - but think what a happy cosy winter I could have. Damn- I just Googled for “flyverdragt”, and I learn that it boringly means “snowsuit”. Sod it, I prefer that exotic _flyverdragt_ word and at least I have many months until winter in which to learn its pronunciation. 🙂
“Flyverdragt” means “flight-suit” (“snow-suit” would be “snedragt”) Another, more recent thing is a voksipose, ([voksipose - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=voksipose&tbm=isch)), which can be picked up out of the baby carriage and carried around.
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### Author:  [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/58 "2014-07-19T09:28:10Z")
Ah, I can see why that makes more sense. Thanks! 🙂
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/59 "2014-07-20T05:48:50Z")
I have been summering in Denmark–and occasionally wintering) for nearly two decades. I saw babies left outside their closed doors the first day and was shocked. My now-husband explained to me the whys and hows. After a few more babies I figured they had the whole “cold” thing figured out.
> [@Celyn](#):
>
> The 4th picture on the link you gave is wonderful - the rainbow one. 🙂 I want an adult-sized one for me, oh yes.! Not for now, obviously - it’s stupidly hot these days - but think what a happy cosy winter I could have. Damn- I just Googled for “flyverdragt”, and I learn that it boringly means “snowsuit”. Sod it, I prefer that exotic _flyverdragt_ word and at least I have many months until winter in which to learn its pronunciation. 🙂
Nothing cuter than a little toddler wearing those. They walk around with their arms nearly extended and can barely walk (it’s not like they’re that good at walking anyway).
> [@madmonk28](#):
>
> Except that several people told her it was too cold for the baby to be outside (which is a clue that you might be violating a cultural norm) and, oh, yeah, her husband with whom she was drinking is an American.
My daughter was born in July in the Caribbean and I encountered too many busybodies who thought she was underdressed in an onesie. Somehow she survived Caribbean summers and Danish winters without having been sick a day in her life (other than the occasional runny nose). The story should have ended when the cops talked to the parents.
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> If parents in Scandinavia leave their kids outside in weather _the parents themselves can’t tolerate_ they’re fucking idiots.
Which is why Nordic people went extinct. Tragic indeed.
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### Author:  [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/60 "2014-07-20T13:18:23Z")
At eleven I wasn’t left in the vehicle by myself, I was driving it.
We’d always go up north, about a 4.5 hour drive. When I was 11 my dad pulled off on the shoulder, got out, and said “you can drive” So I did. Some old Toyota truck, stick shift, pea green.
None of my kids drove before they were fifteen and had their permit (at least to my knowledge) except we’d let them drive on the lake in the winter. No traffic, nothing to hit.
My kids are more sheltered than I was, but still have way more freedom than their peers.
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