# I pit helicopter parents
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 18, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434 "2014-07-18T08:16:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/81 "2014-07-23T23:05:11Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> [Why are so many parents being arrested?](http://theweek.com/article/index/265010/why-are-so-many-parents-being-arrested), Michael Brendan Dougherty, The Week, July 21, 2014.
>
> > [@Michael Brendan Dougherty](#):
> >
> > We’re arresting parents because civil society is retreating from children altogether.
Says the Right Wing Nut Job who’s also probably protesting the children at the border trying to escape genocide in their own countries. (In case you’re wondering, I used to work with MBD and know his politics well.) If we don’t give a shit about each others’ children any more, we have Conservatives to thank for much of that mindset. We can also thank them for taking away funding for child care and other programs single mothers need. And a far-too-low minimum wage that working mothers can’t afford day care on.
So as much as I agree that it’s ridiculous what our society has turned into, dude needs to do some self-reflection before spouting off about it.
---
### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/82 "2014-07-23T23:34:28Z")
> [@Rune](#):
>
> It’s not (very) cold air, but fresh air that is being considered healthful (ok, reasonable cold air is probably considered good also – but that’s just Scandinavians for you). You can say that there are less viruses and bacteria and other things that can cause sickness – but that’s just after rationalizations. It’s just a custom. It doesn’t really matter. The thing is that it was a harmless custom which a little talk with the café-manager or the policeman should have cleared up without putting anyone in handcuffs, throwing anybody in jail or sending anybody into state foster care.
>
> It could have gone down like this:
> Police: Is that your baby. There are some people that are worried that it might be too cold for it.
> Mother: Yes, my baby. No no, she’s perfectly ok. See, packed up as an Eskimo, sleeping like a clubbed baby seal. It’s done all the time in Denmark.
> Police: Denmark huh? Oh yeah I can see that. Although it’s not really a thing that is done in New York. So it’d probably be best if you didn’t do it while here, otherwise you’re just going to weird us out.
> Mother: Ok, I see. I didn’t know that. Silly me. Thanks for telling me. I’ll grab the baby and take her inside. No problem.
The thing you don’t seem to get is that we Americans don’t see this as merely a cultural thing. People aren’t just weirded out. They believe the baby is in eminent danger. It’s not helicopter parenting because the issue is not that the parent isn’t watching the child, but that the child is seen as being in danger from the cold.
The idea that you could just bundle up and be safe in subfreezing temperatures is not something I would believe just from being told by the person who has a vested interest in lying to me to get out of an arrest.
I have you guys telling me here, and I still have a difficult time believing it, especially since the baby’s face is exposed. The only way I can stand being out in even above freezing cold temps is to cover up as much of my face as possible. And even then I’m going to try to get inside as soon as possible. It hurts.
The issue to me seems not to be cultural, but that Danes are more acclimated to the cold.
---
### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/83 "2014-07-24T00:18:39Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> …It’s not helicopter parenting because the issue is not that the parent isn’t watching the child, but that the child is seen as being in danger from the cold. …
And not just from the cold. In New York City, how wise is it to have a building-wall between you and your baby?
It may be entirely unknown in Denmark for a baby to be stolen, but that’s scarcely the case in the USA.
---
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/84 "2014-07-24T00:49:22Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> It may be entirely unknown in Denmark for a baby to be stolen, but that’s scarcely the case in the USA.
It’s scarcely the case in the USA either.
---
### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/85 "2014-07-24T00:56:10Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> The idea that you could just bundle up and be safe in subfreezing temperatures is not something I would believe just from being told by the person who has a vested interest in lying to me to get out of an arrest.
>
> I have you guys telling me here, and I still have a difficult time believing it, especially since the baby’s face is exposed. The only way I can stand being out in even above freezing cold temps is to cover up as much of my face as possible. And even then I’m going to try to get inside as soon as possible. It hurts.
>
> The issue to me seems not to be cultural, but that Danes are more acclimated to the cold.
Ohhhhkay. Is the idea of wearing warm clothes as protection from the cold that alien to you, though? I mean, I’m not saying you’re a delicate flower, but damn. You do realize that people live in North Dakota, right?
---
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/86 "2014-07-24T01:07:15Z")
And given that this happened in **MAY** , I don’t think the cold was an issue. It certainly wasn’t in any of the articles I could find, with only one \*editorial \*mentioning cold and drinks as a reason. It was all about the child being left unattended, not about the parents escaping the cold. This is far more about people being unable to accurately assess risk, and getting others in trouble for their inability.
> [@](#):
>
> ‘‘To leave a child unattended for an hour on a city street in New York is pretty inappropriate,’’ Mr. Scoppetta(\*) said. ‘‘I don’t think you should expect the Police Department to make inquiries about whether this is acceptable in Denmark.’’
>
> Maggie Lear, a spokeswoman for the agency, said unanswered questions remain, like why the girl’s father, who is from Brooklyn, would follow a Danish custom, knowing the dangers that lurk in the streets of New York City.
Allegedly not unattended. Allegedly being watched. Baby was in far more danger every time they crossed a street than from being snatched.
\*Commissioner of the Administration for Children’s Services in 1997
---
### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/87 "2014-07-24T06:20:33Z")
[Safety suit.](http://youtu.be/t9KlAvqWAJk)
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/88 "2014-07-24T08:58:46Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#):
>
> And given that this happened in **MAY** , I don’t think the cold was an issue. It certainly wasn’t in any of the articles I could find, with only one \*editorial \*mentioning cold and drinks as a reason. It was all about the child being left unattended, not about the parents escaping the cold. This is far more about people being unable to accurately assess risk, and getting others in trouble for their inability.
>
> Allegedly not unattended. Allegedly being watched. Baby was in far more danger every time they crossed a street than from being snatched.
Personally, I wouldn’t worry about the baby being snatched - I’d worry about some junkie stumbling into the carriage and knocking it over. Or hell, a bunch of businessmen knocking it over. I’ve lived in NYC. I’ve been a NY pedestrian, and I know how they move.
---
### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/89 "2014-07-24T15:42:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Personally, I wouldn’t worry about the baby being snatched - I’d worry about some junkie stumbling into the carriage and knocking it over. Or hell, a bunch of businessmen knocking it over. I’ve lived in NYC. I’ve been a NY pedestrian, and I know how they move.
Latter is more likely of the two as it was late evening in the East Village.
---
### Author:  [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/90 "2014-07-25T09:19:22Z")
> [@andros](#):
>
> Ohhhhkay. Is the idea of wearing warm clothes as protection from the cold that alien to you, though? I mean, I’m not saying you’re a delicate flower, but damn. You do realize that people live in North Dakota, right?
Let it be known that North Dakota is colder than Denmark (where I am right now). It’s also colder than NY.
---
### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/91 "2014-07-25T20:07:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Personally, I wouldn’t worry about the baby being snatched - I’d worry about some junkie stumbling into the carriage and knocking it over…
Or coughing some unholy bacteria-stew phlegm into the baby’s face.
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/92 "2014-07-25T20:38:29Z")
Exactly. I love New York, but I know that the moment you step outside, you gotta stay alert. I wouldn’t take a nap on a New York sidewalk - why should a baby?
---
### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 7, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/93 "2014-08-07T17:41:08Z")
> [@Incubus](#):
>
> While people like to talk about how much freer kids were in the past, I bet a lot more abuse and neglect went on and nobody did anything about it. Sure it seems like a helicopter parent to worry about some unattended kid in a bus depot, but how are you 100% certain some abusive parent didn’t just abandon them there? These days abusive and neglectful parents are much more likely to be identified and punished than in the past.
True. There does seem to be a disconnect between the two ideas, as if they have nothing to do with each other:
1. Crimes affecting children is much lower than in “the past”
2. Parents are far more watchful than they were in “the past”
In addition, there seems to be a fair amount of confirmation bias - “I was left alone when I was 7, and nothing bad happened to me, so there - that proves my point!” I, too, was left alone with my siblings when I was that age. Is it OK for me to assume that my experience was universal? I was OK too… as long as you ignore the 2 broken arms, a brother who got himself stuck in a tree (and needed the fire department to get him down), the times we locked ourselves out of the house (and had to wait until a parent got home with the key), unattended bicycle injuries, etc. Other than that, the kids are all right! :rolleyes:
And since the discussion seems to be centered on a single incident that occurred **seventeen years ago** (!), I don’t understand why the New Yorkers are automatically presumed wrong in their cultural assumption while the Danish couple gets a pass. Sure, it’s OK in Copenhagen to leave swaddled babies outside in the cold weather. That’s fine. But it’s not OK to do that in NYC. That, too, is fine. On this issue, the cultures differ… but only one is derided.
---
### Author:  [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)
#### Post date: [August 7, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/94 "2014-08-07T23:03:14Z")
Meanwhile in [Victoria, Australia](http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/jail-time-doubled-for-parents-of-children-left-alone-in-cars-or-homes-20140806-100vn5.html):
> [@](#):
>
> On Wednesday, a spokeswoman for Children and Early Childhood Development Minister, Wendy Lovell, confirmed the age at which a child could be ‘‘unattended’’ was 16 years.
They promise not to charge parents unless they decide to.
---
### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [August 8, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/95 "2014-08-08T01:32:45Z")
That’s insane. That calls into question the idea that people can reach the age of majority at 18. If someone has to be under their parents’ watchful eye until 16, then shouldn’t we be raising the age of majority to like, 25?
---
### Author:  [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)
#### Post date: [August 8, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/96 "2014-08-08T21:53:51Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> A babies skin is far more sensitive than an adults and whose face is still exposed to the elements and they can’t tell you when they’ve had enough. Hard to hear crying when you’re inside. It’s also pretty fucking archaic to believe cold air is good for their health, are the parents still draining the yellow bile to reinvigorate the humors too?
[Cite.](http://www.prevention.com/health/healthy-living/cold-weather-health-benefitshttp://) Just one example. I’m sure a little time spent actually searching instead of making sarcastic assertions will do wonders…
---
### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [August 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/97 "2014-08-10T20:29:50Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> … I don’t understand why the New Yorkers are automatically presumed wrong in their cultural assumption while the Danish couple gets a pass. Sure, it’s OK in Copenhagen to leave swaddled babies outside in the cold weather. That’s fine. But it’s not OK to do that in NYC. That, too, is fine. On this issue, the cultures differ… but only one is derided.
So true. I suppose part of that is the Fun Inherent in Outrage-and-Contempt; many love that feeling they get when they scoff at the (supposed) Nanny State. (And the confirmation bias you reference plays an inevitable part in that orientation.)
The fact remains that Copenhagen and NYC differ in ways material to the wisdom of choosing to leave a baby outside a restaurant.
---
### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2014, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/98 "2014-08-12T09:24:23Z")
Scotland passes a law giving every child their own government-appointed professional guardian. This is the logical slippery slope of an overprotective society towards children. Since some parents can’t be trusted, all parents should be considered unfit. Guess what the next step after that is? Licensing requirements.
[http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28078483](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28078483)
But never fear! Proponents assure citizens that parents don’t have to accept help or take advice from the professional guardian. there will never be any repercussions for disregarding the advice of the government-appointed professional. And if you believe that…
> **[Child guardian plan faces legal challenge from Christian group](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26748830)**
>
> Plans to appoint a "named guardian" for every child in Scotland face legal challenge by Christian group
---
### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/99 "2014-08-12T12:07:31Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> The only way I can stand being out in even above freezing cold temps is to cover up as much of my face as possible. And even then I’m going to try to get inside as soon as possible. It hurts…
Oh, don’t be such a baby. No, scratch that; be a baby!
---
### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434/100 "2014-08-12T13:00:33Z")
24/7 automated personalized child and youth surveillance quadricopters plus implanted Go-Pros/transmitters are humanity’s only hope.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434.md?page=4)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-helicopter-parents/693434.md?page=6)