# I Pit Hillary Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189 "2016-11-09T13:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/81 "2016-11-09T19:11:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > True enough. Hillary isn’t very charismatic. But Trump has the charisma of Grandma’s used Depends, and he won. > Yes. And Trump isn’t going to fix that any more than Hillary could. I grant you, I have almost no trust in anything Trump says about the issues, but I don’t see much difference between what Trump says about trade and globalization and what Hillary did. > > What happens when Trump can’t fix anything? I suspect the voters who elected him will abandon him, but they aren’t going to flock to the Democrats. They’ll stay home. Trump isn’t guaranteed 90+% of the white working class votes like Obama was the black vote. > > Obama was re-elected because the incumbent President is usually re-elected, absent any catastrophe. Bush 41 ran up against the most canny political animal in recent memory, and he lost. The Dems better come up with a charismatic politician like Bill, and I don’t see any in the offing. > > Trump is going to run his Presidency the way he ran his campaign - ignoring all the media and left-wing outrage and playing to the crowd. Will it work in 2020? God alone knows - I still can’t believe it worked last night. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s hard to say what happens next. Dems move right? I think the solutions to pressures from globalization are radical. I’ve been thinking we need a basic income and an expanded safety net for several years now. But what politician is going to make that radical case to the American public? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/82 "2016-11-09T19:13:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Trump is going to run his Presidency the way he ran his campaign - ignoring all the media and left-wing outrage and playing to the crowd. I suspect that he won’t. Presidential candidates can only talk, so Trump running his mouth was all there was to focus on. Actual presidents can do things, so there’s more focus on that. And when presidents do things, they generally have heavy advice from various assistants and cabinet members, along with members of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/83 "2016-11-09T19:17:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > No… I realize that each side will downplay their candidate’s faults, and play up the competition’s. > > What I’m saying is that for a huge chunk of the population, they felt like the Clintons’ reputation for being above the law, perceived dishonesty and shady character was a far worse thing than Trump’s faults, and harder to overlook. > > **Everyone on here keeps saying that Trump’s baggage was worse than Clinton’s, but it wasn’t perceived that way by the general public.** Trump did one thing that was interesting- he made the election about the candidates’s character and not about the parties’ platforms, which is something of a departure from the usual presidential election where the candidates are usually leading the party charge w.r.t. the policies they propose. > > It came down to what people found more odious- arrogant dishonesty (how Clinton is perceived) or being obnoxious, narcissistic and mercurial (how Trump is perceived), and people found Trump to be at worst, more acceptable than Clinton in this regard. [Bolding mine.] But that’s not what happened with the majority of Trump voters that I know of personally. You ask them what they think of Trump calling illegal immigrants rapists? They say he didn’t say that. You ask them about the “grab them by the pussy” tape? They say it was just bullshit talk. You ask them about not paying contractors? They say that never happened and it’s just spin by the lamestream media. You ask about the lawsuits or the bankruptcies? They say they hadn’t heard anything about that on Fox News. You ask about the inciteful things he said during his rallies? They say they weren’t there and would’ve had to heard it for themselves. Every heinous remark or action was downplayed, excused or just outright disbelieved, even when it came straight from the horse’s mouth. So, what does one do with that? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/84 "2016-11-09T19:22:28Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Seems like a tall order. yes it does, but you know damn well that if it was reversed Trump would be claiming “rigged election”, refusing to concede, and calling on his voters to refuse to recognise Clinton as President. And meanwhile they’d be blocking everything for the next 4 years. Sometimes taking the moral high ground just fucks you and makes you lose everything you care about, and this is one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/85 "2016-11-09T19:28:40Z")
I don’t think you can overturn the Electoral College with lawsuits. Trump won. Being a sore loser isn’t going to change anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/86 "2016-11-09T19:37:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think you can overturn the Electoral College with lawsuits. Tell that to the hanging chads in 2000. And yes in this case being a sore loser will change things, the point is to use their tactics, delay, delay, delay and make sure they can achieve nothing until the mid-terms. Trump did not win the popular vote, so I maintain that using all legal non violent tactics is well and proper to obstruct everything that he and the GOP wants to do until the mid-terms in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/87 "2016-11-09T19:38:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why nominate someone with the deck stacked so heavily against her? because it was her turn? Didn’t the Republicans used to do that and fail? > > Clinton lost because she was unelectable despite her assurances that she was. > > She lost because she ran a horrible campaign despite having more money, more experience, party support, more of everything but votes. It’s pretty bizarre to call someone “unelectable” who (a) was elected to the Senate, (b) won her party’s primaries, and (c) won a plurality of the popular vote in the presidential election. Hillary had two things working against her that combined in a strange synergy of negativism that the Republican machine exploited to the fullest. The first was that she had a justified reputation as untrustworthy. Her long and deep connections with the political establishment were rightly viewed with suspicion. The email thing wasn’t a real scandal so much as a tangible symbol of her being secretive and underhanded, which was a terrible liability in an election when voters were hypersensitized to the supposed evils of the entrenched political establishment. Her second big liability was that she is a woman. It’s true. Women are tolerated in American business and politics if they play by the rules. Men are admired if they’re aggressive but aggressive women are viewed with discomfort in what is still a misogynistic society, and Hillary was uncompromisingly ambitious and aggressive in the pursuit of power. Her lack of charisma or any mitigating softness brought out the worst of the misogyny that still lurks in the dark corners of society. It wasn’t the email “scandal” that was her undoing and it wasn’t Benghazi – she has had mud thrown at her for her entire time in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/88 "2016-11-09T19:53:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ramira is right. Charisma is huge. But charisma only takes you so far. Anti-globalist sentiment is predictably growing yet is inexplicably dismissed by the elite. As I’ve said in other threads, not everyone is cut out for STEM and the jobs that China now does that the US does aren’t going to be satisfactorily replaced with Wal-Mart greeter jobs. > > Wait til automation and AI start making a huge impact. I vehemently dislike you, your positions on most issues and your writing style, but I agree with this post nearly 100%. In less than 20 years, I predict that 10-15% of what we consider “the workforce” will be unemployable thanks to automation and AI. And we as a society, both in America and globally, are not prepared for a society where a significant percentage of the population is unemployable through no fault of their own. THAT is going to be interesting to see play out (for certain definitions of the word “interesting”). > [@octopus](#): > > It’s hard to say what happens next. Dems move right? I think the solutions to pressures from globalization are radical. I’ve been thinking we need a basic income and an expanded safety net for several years now. But what politician is going to make that radical case to the American public? Ddamn, two posts in a row where you seem reasonable! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/89 "2016-11-09T19:53:41Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Tell that to the hanging chads in 2000. I don’t think Gore’s lawsuits overturned the Electoral College. And it certainly didn’t change the result of the election. Nor did it prevent Bush from doing what he did during his first term. > [@](#): > > And yes in this case being a sore loser will change things, the point is to use their tactics, delay, delay, delay and make sure they can achieve nothing until the mid-terms. Trump did not win the popular vote, so I maintain that using all legal non violent tactics is well and proper to obstruct everything that he and the GOP wants to do until the mid-terms in 2018. Oh, I’m sure the Dems will just as obstructionist in 2017-2018 as the GOP was in 2008-2010. Although the hamsters on the SDMB servers will labor under the strain of “THAT’S DIFFERENT” from now until then. But for now, the GOP controls both houses of Congress and the White House. And (God willing) will appoint at least one, possibly two, hopefully more Justices to the Supreme Court who are not going to look with favor upon the kind of judicial activism that gave us gay marriage. Although you are probably correct that Trump would have screamed bloody murder and filed lawsuits had he lost. If that’s the model you wish to follow, knock yourself out. After all, he did win. If you want to show how much you think Trump is bad for the country by doing exactly what he would do, feel free, and we will see how it plays out in the electorate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/90 "2016-11-09T19:59:19Z")
I may start calling her “Clinton45” regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/91 "2016-11-09T20:00:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I suspect that he won’t. > > Presidential candidates can only talk, so Trump running his mouth was all there was to focus on. Actual presidents can do things, so there’s more focus on that. **And when presidents do things, they generally have heavy advice from various assistants and cabinet members, along with members of Congress**. Now that I’ve helpfully bolded that sentence, is it apparent how silly it is to talk about the way presidents “generally” do things when discussing Mr. Trump, or do I have to explain it with examples? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/92 "2016-11-09T20:02:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Although you are probably correct that Trump would have screamed bloody murder and filed lawsuits had he lost. If that’s the model you wish to follow, knock yourself out. So exactly what would the Dems gain by being morally superior and trying to cooperate? The way I see it it’s not the GOP that’s been destroyed by this election, its the Democratic party. Trump is not a republican, his base is socially conservative, religious, but economically left wing, specifically protectionist and overall all else patriotic and gun loving. Thats a new centre ground, Trump has stolen the working class whites from the Dems, it’s not really the GOP anymore, but Trump is calling it that because he won. If the Dems don’t fight it with everything they have and make Trumps government utterly untenable, then the Dems are the ones that will never win an election again. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/93 "2016-11-09T20:04:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think it was lack of charisma that killed Hillary – it was the scandals (whether valid or not) and associated baggage. Too many people just absolutely hated her, whether for good reasons or for bad ones, and we (and she) didn’t/couldn’t see it. You didn’t/couldn’t see it? No, it wasn’t passive. You actively denied it, you refused to believe it. But you were not blind to it. That hatred has been around since the early 1990s. Yesterday was vivid proof of that. She was the candidate you guys wanted. Your party was in the bag for her from the very start. You can’t suddenly pretend you didn’t know that she was damaged goods. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/94 "2016-11-09T20:07:34Z")
Republicans nominate a hate-filled sociopathic narcissistic reality show star, then elect him, yet somehow it is the Democrats fault for not putting up a better candidate. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/95 "2016-11-09T20:10:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I vehemently dislike you, your positions on most issues and your writing style, but I agree with this post nearly 100%. > > In less than 20 years, I predict that 10-15% of what we consider “the workforce” will be unemployable thanks to automation and AI. > > And we as a society, both in America and globally, are not prepared for a society where a significant percentage of the population is unemployable through no fault of their own. > > THAT is going to be interesting to see play out (for certain definitions of the word “interesting”). > > Ddamn, two posts in a row where you seem reasonable! 🙂 I’m very reasonable. I just don’t automatically join in the reflexive calling of someone wearing a Confederate flag a racist or someone who disagrees with judicial overrule of a democratic decision homophobic and because of that defense of others and their genuine points of view I get libeled as bigoted. When I determined that this message board had many who didn’t care to read carefully but were quick to attack I decided not to care quite so much of how I was perceived since it was obvious I couldn’t mitigate the attacks without being dishonestly politically correct. Just like I dislike forced patriotism I dislike forced virtue signaling and I refuse to do it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/96 "2016-11-09T20:10:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For the past few months, I have been excoriating the Republican party, because they chose the one candidate in the field that couldn’t beat Clinton. > > I was wrong. The Democrats picked the candidate who couldn’t beat **Donald Effing Trump**. > I’m not ready to start stockpiling ammunition and canned goods, but the GOP Congressman I heard interviewed on the radio this morning said “this is an extinction level event”, and he was right. Not that the US is going to disappear, or that WWIII is going to break out. But neither party is going to be the same, and it won’t be good, and it won’t be pretty. > > Hillary should have won by ten points. Instead, she lost to a New York real estate developer with a potty mouth and no political experience. > > Hillary, you prissy, paranoid putz, with your private servers and your Hollywood friends and your millions in Saudi money and everyone in the media on your side and every poll - and you blew it. > > Pit you. > > Regards, > Shodan This. (Congrats on your first and probably only high 5 from me). Last night I was outraged by a good chunk of the American people, but now I’m drifting toward being angry at Hillary and the Democratic Party. We gave her a pass on so many things, and accepted so much of her explanating because this election was so incredibly important. We let our dudgeon blind us to what’s going on with half the country. So much of it is in fact deplorable, but there are also non-deplorable people who are offered nothing by the Democrats. The young progressive enthusiastic voters were offered little more except the urgency of winning, just this once. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/97 "2016-11-09T20:36:59Z")
Not crazy about a President Trump, but _Goddamn_ I hope this is the last we ever hear from _any_ fucking Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/98 "2016-11-09T20:42:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I vehemently dislike you, your positions on most issues and your writing style, but I agree with this post nearly 100%. > > In less than 20 years, I predict that 10-15% of what we consider “the workforce” will be unemployable thanks to automation and AI. > > And we as a society, both in America and globally, are not prepared for a society where a significant percentage of the population is unemployable through no fault of their own. > > THAT is going to be interesting to see play out (for certain definitions of the word “interesting”). According to some people on this board, they’ll just be dismissed as losers who deserved their fate and things will go on as normal, except for everyone ignoring all the suffering and dying. And regards to Shodan for reminding me what conservatives think of gay people. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/99 "2016-11-09T20:50:06Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > According to some people on this board, they’ll just be dismissed as losers who deserved their fate and things will go on as normal, except for everyone ignoring all the suffering and dying. Prolly deserving of it’s own thread, but the point is that the people suffering, if it comes to that, will not sit idly by and simply wait to be deceased. If that is the way that society chooses to try and deal with the situation, there WILL be violence, there will be chaos. FWIW, I agree that right now that seems to the prevalent attitude in American society towards people who are not obviously wealthy and/or obviously physically disabled who does not work. I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine that many people will find their attitudes changing as it happens to them or to someone they know, but whether or not society in general changes attitudes in time to avoid the violence and chaos is impossible to know right now. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/100 "2016-11-09T20:56:28Z")
You know how sometimes on this board you see people gloating about how Trump “triggers” liberals? That nasty puerile sadistic instinct became normalized in Republican circles in the past six months, by conservatives here and elsewhere. The idea that it’s fun to watch minorities get upset by someone being a bigot is a shitty, shitty idea. It helped Trump rise to power. Blame for this election falls on the millions of assholes who voted for Trump. I underestimated how many there were, and my basic view of humans–a bunch of schmucks doing their best to be good people–changed last night. Today I see our species as significantly worse than I did yesterday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189.md?page=6)