# I Pit Hillary Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189 "2016-11-09T13:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/101 "2016-11-09T20:59:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Prolly deserving of it’s own thread, but the point is that the people suffering, if it comes to that, will not sit idly by and simply wait to be deceased. If that is the way that society chooses to try and deal with the situation, there WILL be violence, there will be chaos. > > FWIW, I agree that right now that seems to the prevalent attitude in American society towards people who are not obviously wealthy and/or obviously physically disabled who does not work. I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine that many people will find their attitudes changing as it happens to them or to someone they know, but whether or not society in general changes attitudes in time to avoid the violence and chaos is impossible to know right now. Which is just what I was arguing in the GD thread I was thinking about. Granted, it was on another, related topic, one you might argue might not stir as much passion or be as widespread, but the principle is still the same. Few people seem to agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/102 "2016-11-09T21:08:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You know how sometimes on this board you see people gloating about how Trump “triggers” liberals? That nasty puerile sadistic instinct became normalized in Republican circles in the past six months, by conservatives here and elsewhere. The idea that it’s fun to watch minorities get upset by someone being a bigot is a shitty, shitty idea. It helped Trump rise to power. > > Blame for this election falls on the millions of assholes who voted for Trump. I underestimated how many there were, and my basic view of humans–a bunch of schmucks doing their best to be good people–changed last night. Today I see our species as significantly worse than I did yesterday. Different people react to this type of attitude in different ways. NPR’s coverage today has been along these lines, if less vitriolic. My wife is a regular NPR listener, and she found it extremely annoying. But I’ve been listening as well, and I find it somewhat amusing. OTOH, I’m in a somewhat magnimonious mood at this time … (Also, unlike her, I did not actually vote for Trump.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/103 "2016-11-09T21:21:18Z")
> [@joyfool](#): > > [Bolding mine.] > Every heinous remark or action was downplayed, excused or just outright disbelieved, even when it came straight from the horse’s mouth. So, what does one do with that? I’m not saying that they like that stuff, but that they disliked Hillary more. And there was probably a certain amount of “let’s roll this turd in glitter, now that we’ve chosen it.” going on, and that’s what you saw. The Trump supporters I know constantly harp about Clinton, Benghazi, emails, Vince Foster, impeachment, lying, dishonesty, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/104 "2016-11-09T21:24:04Z")
Let’s not blame the Democrats for this one. What happened was twenty-five years of Republican lies beat a year and a half of Republican lies. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/105 "2016-11-09T21:29:23Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Republicans nominate a hate-filled sociopathic narcissistic reality show star, then elect him, yet somehow it is the Democrats fault for not putting up a better candidate. Yes, exactly. Any competent candidate should have been able to obliterate him easily. That they went ahead with just about the only candidate who couldn’t beat him is, yes, their fault. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/106 "2016-11-09T21:36:37Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > So exactly what would the Dems gain by being morally superior and trying to cooperate? Credibility? The ability to learn from experience? Like I said, it didn’t achieve anything in 2000, and it didn’t prevent Bush from being re-elected in 2004. If you want to carry on the spirit of Sore-Loserman, feel free, but it appears to me to be ineffective, if not counter-productive. > [@Leaper](#): > > And regards to Shodan for reminding me what conservatives think of gay people. Not sure what this refers to. My comment on gay marriage is a disparagement of judicial activism, if that’s what it was. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/107 "2016-11-09T21:40:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s pretty bizarre to call someone “unelectable” who (a) was elected to the Senate, (b) won her party’s primaries, and (c) won a plurality of the popular vote in the presidential election. (a) In New York where the way was paved for her. They cleared the primary and she ran for the Democratic nomination unopposed. (b) Once again the way was paved for her and she faced little if any opposition in the primary (do you really want to get into how she had to struggle against Bernie Sanders? A face made for radio and a voice made for print, no star power and even less money. (c) She lost to Trump. Fucking Trump. I can name a dozen politicians off the top of my head that wouldn’t have lost to Trump. > [@](#): > > Hillary had two things working against her that combined in a strange synergy of negativism that the Republican machine exploited to the fullest. > > The first was that she had a justified reputation as untrustworthy. Her long and deep connections with the political establishment were rightly viewed with suspicion. The email thing wasn’t a real scandal so much as a tangible symbol of her being secretive and underhanded, which was a terrible liability in an election when voters were hypersensitized to the supposed evils of the entrenched political establishment. Agreed. And no one was more untrustworthy than her. > [@](#): > > Her second big liability was that she is a woman. It’s true. Women are tolerated in American business and politics if they play by the rules. Men are admired if they’re aggressive but aggressive women are viewed with discomfort in what is still a misogynistic society, and Hillary was uncompromisingly ambitious and aggressive in the pursuit of power. Her lack of charisma or any mitigating softness brought out the worst of the misogyny that still lurks in the dark corners of society. It wasn’t the email “scandal” that was her undoing and it wasn’t Benghazi – she has had mud thrown at her for her entire time in politics. I sincerely doubt that being a woman is a barrier to getting elected president, not anymore. If Hillary accomplished anything it is the confidence that we will be electing a woman president if and when she is the best candidate. I think being Hillary Clinton is Hillary Clinton’s biggest barrier to getting elected president. Sure she had mud thrown at her, and often for very good reason. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/108 "2016-11-09T21:48:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > my basic view of humans–a bunch of schmucks doing their best to be good people–changed last night. Today I see our species as significantly worse than I did yesterday. You’re not much of a student of history then. Western civilization did shit like bear-baiting until the mid 19th century, and had Jim Crow laws within living memory. And people STILL get the crap beat out of them or worse for being gay, bi, trans or whatever. Some white people under the age of 80 STILL use the n-word in everyday conversation. They’re still anti-semitic. They’re still racist. They still blame victims. They still conflate Islam with terrorism. They still think that violence is a viable solution to many problems. Now not everyone who acts or believes these things acts all those ways or believes all those things, but in aggregate, the human race is worse than it is good. My personal opinion is that most of what Trump said was more of a reflection of the angry monkeys he was trying to get to elect him, rather than his own beliefs and behaviors (that’s not to say that by all accounts, he’s a colossal asshole). ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/109 "2016-11-09T21:48:11Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Yes, exactly. Any competent candidate should have been able to obliterate him easily. That they went ahead with just about the only candidate who couldn’t beat him is, yes, their fault. Enlighten me about how much you think it’s their fault. Because it sounds an awful lot like blaming the mugging victim for being out in a bad part of town at night rather than blaming the fucking mugger. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/110 "2016-11-09T21:51:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m not ready to start stockpiling ammunition and canned goods, but the GOP Congressman I heard interviewed on the radio this morning said “this is an extinction level event”, and he was right. Not that the US is going to disappear, or that WWIII is going to break out. _ **But neither party is going to be the same, and it won’t be good, and it won’t be pretty** _. _\_ It’s about time…this would be by far the best thing to come out of this election. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/111 "2016-11-09T21:57:33Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You’re not much of a student of history then. Western civilization did shit like bear-baiting until the mid 19th century, and had Jim Crow laws within living memory. And people STILL get the crap beat out of them or worse for being gay, bi, trans or whatever. I know all that, dude. What changes is the sense that the arc of history bends toward justice. It’s hard to believe that things slowly but inevitably get better when a throwback like Trump appeals to tens of millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/112 "2016-11-09T22:22:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I know all that, dude. What changes is the sense that the arc of history bends toward justice. It’s hard to believe that things slowly but inevitably get better when a throwback like Trump appeals to tens of millions of people. Well said. That’s what that black pit in my stomach is. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/113 "2016-11-09T22:29:15Z")
This is like when Eric Cartman entered the Special Olympics… ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/114 "2016-11-09T22:35:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I know all that, dude. What changes is the sense that the arc of history bends toward justice. It’s hard to believe that things slowly but inevitably get better when a throwback like Trump appeals to tens of millions of people. I get what you’re saying, but… I thought that the entire point of the political fight was to battle against the “tens of millions of people” that we already knew were currently passing bad laws and discriminating and such? How is that part anything like a surprise? There are less of them, true, but who actually thought that the enemy was eliminated, or even on the ropes? The threat existed, which is why many supported Democrats in the first place! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/115 "2016-11-09T22:39:35Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Not crazy about a President Trump, but _Goddamn_ I hope this is the last we ever hear from _any_ fucking Clinton. Nice to think so, but on the other hand I wouldn’t discount HillaryZilla lurching back onto the scene in time for 2020. I think we might have seen the last of the Bushes, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/116 "2016-11-09T22:48:34Z")
Well I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. All Americans are racist misogynist assholes. Good job Americans you elected the one person in history worse than Hitler. I hope you’ll pat yourselves on the back when Super Satan Hitler starts the nuclear war, which should be in about 10 minutes. You racist mis9ogynist fuckshitters just murdered the planet. And global warming to boot. How I am going to be ok in my Safe Space when it’s full of nuclear radiation that is murdering me? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/117 "2016-11-09T22:49:10Z")
Thanks, **Shodan** , you saved me the trouble. I’ve said as much in other threads… Jesus Ef’ing Christ, Hills, you couldn’t beat Trump??? Well, it shouldn’t be so much of a surprise when you had 2008 handed to you but lost to Obama. And then you almost lost the nomination to a grumpy old Jewish Socialist who no one even knew a year ago. Please go away and don’t run again!!! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/118 "2016-11-09T22:52:06Z")
Wait, I just thought of a question for the OP and those who agree: what percentage of Trump voters do you think only went for him because he wasn’t Hillary Clinton, and would’ve supported any other Democrat, and what percentage do you think believe in his policies and beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/119 "2016-11-09T22:56:18Z")
As has been reiterated by many along the course of the thread: of the two major parties the Democrats’ nominee was better qualified to serve as President. **But** she sucked at _being the candidate._ And you have to succeed at that to become the President. And nothing says that you cannot be completely qualified to be President AND able to to run a succesful candidacy. Look at Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. You can have charisma and competence (it’s one thing to think they had bad \*policies, \*but they were qualified all right) In 2008 I was thinking “oh well, _someone else_ will be the first woman president in 8 or 12 or 20 years” …but oh, no, she was not leaving it at that… I know it takes a preposterous sense of self-worth and of the “call of history” to even try running for president seriously, but for fuck’s sake, telling yourself it is your destiny to be the first woman president does not make it be so. Plus the Dems seemed to not quite get what was going on with the Tea Party wins in 2010 and 2014. These were a warning that the Obama coalition evaporates when he’s not on the ticket even when he’s still sitting in Office, and in his absence, those motivated to actually show up lean to the Right. Where was the effort to make the New Obama Voters show up and vote again? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I know all that, dude. What changes is the sense that the arc of history bends toward justice. It’s hard to believe that things slowly but inevitably get better when a throwback like Trump appeals to tens of millions of people. The problem is how slowly it arcs over the long run, and that the arc is a complex curve that at certain times or over certain segments can and does recede. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189/120 "2016-11-09T23:21:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I sincerely doubt that being a woman is a barrier to getting elected president, not anymore. If Hillary accomplished anything it is the confidence that we will be electing a woman president if and when she is the best candidate. I think being Hillary Clinton is Hillary Clinton’s biggest barrier to getting elected president. Sure she had mud thrown at her, and often for very good reason. I don’t think being a woman is a barrier to the presidency, and I didn’t say that. But in an age where misogyny still lingers much like the darkness of latent racism, it has to be the right kind of woman, judged according to criteria that are much more stringent than how men are judged. Appearance matters, but she can’t be too hot; she needs to be intelligent, but not so intelligent as to be threatening; she is allowed to be somewhat assertive, but not domineering, etc. Hillary didn’t fail in all of those areas – she mainly failed in being unabashedly, aggressively ambitious – a great quality in a man, but not permitted in a woman. I’m virtually certain that a male version of Hillary would have easily beaten Trump, except that the opportunity wouldn’t have arisen because the male Hillary would also have beaten Obama in 2008 and would now be ending his second term. I don’t want to be misunderstood here. This was a far, far more complex election than merely a matter of misogyny. But Hillary was definitely handicapped by it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hillary-clinton/771189.md?page=7)