# I Pit HOBBY LOBBY **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335 "2012-11-28T02:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/681 "2014-07-01T03:14:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > HHS mandates that employers provide coverage for twenty different contraceptives. Hobby Lobby provides sixteen of those and objects to four. Stop trying to oversimplify this with facts and stuff!🆒 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/682 "2014-07-01T04:33:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am certain they are not Catholic. I have no reason to doubt their sincerity, or their willingness to sacrifice profits in service of their beliefs. Of this part, I can agree, although I think their actions belie that. > [@](#): > > But if they don’t regard the tiny fraction of investment in such companies as morally problematic, why would they switch? Wouldn’t such a switch be itself hypocritical – switching just because of the perception? This seems like a moral justification to me. You don’t see something as problematic because it would eat into your profits. But this is just speculation (and some experience) on my part, so okay, I suppose. > [@](#): > > I’d suggest that it’s more honest to simply act according to their beliefs, rather than try to change because of the lawsuit. If they believe they are on solid ground, then that’s what they show the world. Now this could be true or, as a lawyer, I’m sure you’ve seen many a client advised to never do anything to show you admit to any guilt. Even if you’re caught red handed with a smoking gun, don’t go out of your way to confess to that until it’s your best interest, right? And I think I’ll save the question of following a moral code outside of what your religion teaches and rather post it as another thread. Thanks for your time and answers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/683 "2014-07-01T05:07:21Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Is Hobby Lobby saying their insurance won’t cover annual checkups if contraception is discussed and/or a prescription written? Or just that they won’t cover any prescribed contraceptives? What about surgical sterilization? I was listening to an analysis today about the ruling on NPR and surgical sterilization is OK, which to me is weird. Or maybe its OK if you work for Hobby Lobby because Hobby Lobby does not object to that procedure, but if you work for Hobby Lobby and you do anything to screw with an actual egg, the egg wins. Any lawyers out there who can clarify? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/684 "2014-07-01T05:26:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The court doesn’t take any position on the validity of the belief. They do take a position on the sincerity of the belief. Those statements mean different things. Important distinction, seeing as how sincerity of belief is quantifiable and objective, whereas validity isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/685 "2014-07-01T08:30:12Z")
Let us pause for a moment of reflection. [The main battleground was the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, which says government may not “substantially burden a person’s free exercise of religion” unless the burden is necessary to further a “compelling government interest” and achieves it by “the least restrictive means".](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/opinion/the-supreme-court-imposing-religion-on-workers.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region) Here is the detail of the [Religious Freedom Restoration Act.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act) Here is who sponsored [The Religious Freedom Restoration Act.](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr1308) Here is who voted to pass [The Religious Freedom Restoration Act in the Senate.](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/s331) Now carry on… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/686 "2014-07-01T09:44:35Z")
Ah, the courts will now be sitting in judgment of the professed religious sincerity of corporations. Wise men, indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/687 "2014-07-01T10:06:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > HHS mandates that employers provide coverage for twenty different contraceptives. Hobby Lobby provides sixteen of those and objects to four. **Bricker,** could I get some cites on this please? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/688 "2014-07-01T11:24:25Z")
It was quite telling to see the right wing reaction to yesterday’s decisions. A lot of them had their biggest erections since they heard that George Zimmerman murdered an unarmed black teen. A whole lot of end zone dancing. As I’ve said many times, being a conservative doesn’t make you an asshole- being an asshole makes you conservative. In the long term, the forces of goodness and light can take comfort in the fact that this has energized the women voters, doubtlessly switching a lot of R votes to the D column, and making sure that a lot of Ds that would otherwise have stayed home. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/689 "2014-07-01T11:38:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > HHS mandates that employers provide coverage for twenty different contraceptives. Hobby Lobby provides sixteen of those and objects to four. But it does set a precedent. I’m guessing that there are closely held corporations out there owned by families or organizations that object to any and all contraception methods, and it’s likely that at least some of them will now want an exemption from covering those methods. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/690 "2014-07-01T11:42:15Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > **Bricker,** could I get some cites on this please? Have you tried reading a news story on the case? Every one I’ve seen mentions this. Or even just doing a quick .02 second google? Asking “Cite?” for easily-verified information is kind of lazy, y’know? [http://www.becketfund.org/hobbylobby/](http://www.becketfund.org/hobbylobby/) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/691 "2014-07-01T11:56:59Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Have you tried reading a news story on the case? Every one I’ve seen mentions this. > > Or even just doing a quick .02 second google? > > Asking “Cite?” for easily-verified information is kind of lazy, y’know? > > [http://www.becketfund.org/hobbylobby/](http://www.becketfund.org/hobbylobby/) Thank you for indulging my laziness. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/692 "2014-07-01T12:05:40Z")
Here is more specific information - [What Birth Control is Affected](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/30/morning-after-iuds/11768653/): It doesn’t affect: • Most birth control pills • Condoms • Sponges • Sterilization It does affect: • Plan B “morning-after pill” • Ella “morning-after pill” • Hormonal and copper intrauterine devices (IUDs) Time to take a deep breath. I am not in support of this decision at all due to the potentially slippery slope, but it is not as bad as I initially thought. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/693 "2014-07-01T12:07:49Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Thanks, but that actually doesn’t answer my question at all. Contraception discussion and/or prescribing is normally a big part of an annual gyno checkup. How does this decision affect this issue which is basic to every woman of reproductive age? It doesn’t affect discussion or prescribing at all. It affects paying for the prescribed items at the pharmacy. If Ella, Plan B, or two IUDs are prescribed, the insurance of a Hobby Lobby employee won’t cover the usual partial payment that happens when an insured person buys prescribed medicine. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/694 "2014-07-01T12:30:55Z")
People could use the money they would normally give to their Church and use it for Birth Control. I guess the owner didn’t read the part of the Bible where Jesus is quoted as telling the young man;" Sell what you have and give it to the poor".Strange how they can avoid some of their scriptures and worry how some people don’t follow their beliefs,when they don’t seem to know the scriptures themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/695 "2014-07-01T12:38:12Z")
I think Hobby Lobby and other right wingers follow [Supply Side Jesus.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-arFM36J9c) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/696 "2014-07-01T12:41:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Ah, the courts will now be sitting in judgment of the professed religious sincerity of corporations. Wise men, indeed! And they mistook an anti-Obamacare tantrum for a sincerely held religious belief, so we’re off to a rousing start. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/697 "2014-07-01T12:43:40Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > People could use the money they would normally give to their Church and use it for Birth Control. > > I guess the owner didn’t read the part of the Bible where Jesus is quoted as telling the young man;" Sell what you have and give it to the poor".Strange how they can avoid some of their scriptures and worry how some people don’t follow their beliefs,when they don’t seem to know the scriptures themselves. A moment’s thought would make the unwieldy nature of your advice clear. If every Christian were literally required to sell what they own and give the money to the poor, how do you imagine Christians would then live? Perhaps you picture sort of a Christian Ponzi scheme – the first guy to follow the advice is now himself poor, and is eligible to receive the largess of the next couple of folks to follow the guidance? Of course, your view that following the scriptures requires a literal adherence to the admonition to sell your possessions is the problem: it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/698 "2014-07-01T12:51:38Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > People could use the money they would normally give to their Church and use it for Birth Control. > > I guess the owner didn’t read the part of the Bible where Jesus is quoted as telling the young man;" Sell what you have and give it to the poor".Strange how they can avoid some of their scriptures and worry how some people don’t follow their beliefs,when they don’t seem to know the scriptures themselves. So I guess the shall not kill part of the bible didn’t matter to you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/699 "2014-07-01T12:57:59Z")
IUDs don’t kill. That’s just Hobby Lobby’s factually incorrect but sincere belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/700 "2014-07-01T13:03:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > IUDs don’t kill. That’s just Hobby Lobby’s factually incorrect but sincere belief. Sure they do. They result in the death of a human living creature. Do you have some factual definition for human living creature? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335.md?page=36)