# I Pit HOBBY LOBBY **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335 "2012-11-28T02:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/61 "2012-11-29T01:35:43Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > I could only read a few. I hope those people are using birth control… LOL. Likely not ☹ ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/62 "2012-11-29T03:26:34Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > [It’s a common trope](http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/9596/Do-morningafter-pills-count-as-abortifacients.aspx). That said, natural law Catholics (and other natural law proponents) oppose contraception because it contradicts natural law. Must be why they bugger altar boys: no chance of conception or abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/63 "2012-11-29T03:53:28Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > He is factually wrong in his understanding of the drug, and thus his entire argument is moot. Yes, his reaction would be understandable if the morning-after pill was actually an abortifactant, but it isn’t. This information has been widely available for at least a decade. In fact, don’t women sometimes naturally “abort” zygotes? Meaning the egg gets fertilized but for one reason or another never implants? The morning after pill and birth control are literally preventing (not-really-)baby killing! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/64 "2012-11-29T04:03:04Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > In fact, don’t women sometimes naturally “abort” zygotes? Meaning the egg gets fertilized but for one reason or another never implants? I was a bit suprised oh so many moons ago when I first heard the term _spontaneous abortion_ to mean _miscarriage_. It’s possible for a fertilized egg to be discarded by the woman’s body for a variety of reasons. That leads me to believe that the logical conclusion for the fanatics–thankfully, it hasn’t reached this stage–is to demand an investigation of each and every woman each and every time she has a menstrual discharge to determine (a) if there is, in fact, a fertilized ovum present and (b) the cause of the ovum’s discharge from the body. It hasn’t reached that extreme _yet_. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/65 "2012-11-29T04:08:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I was a bit suprised oh so many moons ago when I first heard the term _spontaneous abortion_ to mean _miscarriage_. I was actually under the impression that a miscarriage required a fetus to die late-term. It turns out it’s actually the opposite, apologies. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/66 "2012-11-29T20:15:09Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > In fact, don’t women sometimes naturally “abort” zygotes? Meaning the egg gets fertilized but for one reason or another never implants? The morning after pill and birth control are literally preventing (not-really-)baby killing! It’s difficult to even discover accurate statistics on the rate at which such an event occurs, but last I looked, estimates ranged from 20-90% of all conceptions auto-aborting. “_Some design_”, as Hitchens used to say. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/67 "2012-11-29T20:29:32Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > It’s difficult to even discover accurate statistics on the rate at which such an event occurs, but last I looked, estimates ranged from 20-90% of all conceptions auto-aborting. > > “_Some design_”, as Hitchens used to say. How do you know that all of those zygotes would not grow up to be serial killers, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/68 "2012-11-29T21:33:14Z")
Well, a lot of them have chromosomal abnormalities, so they wouldn’t have grown up at all, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/69 "2012-12-27T04:03:44Z")
Justice refuses to block morning-after pill rule [http://news.yahoo.com/justice-refuses-block-morning-pill-230847527.html](http://news.yahoo.com/justice-refuses-block-morning-pill-230847527.html) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/70 "2012-12-27T07:27:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Not as much as I hate cutesy rhymes. Vinyl Turnip, final wolf-pup! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/71 "2012-12-27T17:30:37Z")
The letter (and pretty much all of this ilk) makes it sound as if Hobby Lobby was going to be required to carry Plan B packets at their checkout counters… instead of pay for employee insurance that takes care of whatever health needs the employee has. Absolutely night and day situations, but you’d never know that from the self-serving, anti-tax-based whining. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/72 "2012-12-27T20:16:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I have boycotted Hobby Lobby my entire life. Me, too, but only because I never even heard of it before I saw this thread. I guess they don’t have any branches in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/73 "2012-12-27T20:55:06Z")
They do. There are at least two in Orlando. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/74 "2012-12-28T04:45:30Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I really do understand how repulsive it is for some to feel like they are funding abortions, directly or indirectly. And although I support the law, I’d not be opposed to an exception for religious institutions (and let potential employees decide who they’d rather work for). But no matter how much I respect HL’s commitment to closing early and on Sundays, they are not a religious institution and need to suck it up and follow the law. Or stop offering health insurance to their employees. Which may very well be their next step. Then what? Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/75 "2012-12-28T04:54:01Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Or stop offering health insurance to their employees. > > Which may very well be their next step. > > Then what? > > Regards, > -Bouncer- Bankruptcy, I should hope. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/76 "2012-12-28T12:55:25Z")
[And they’re going to defy the court order requiring them to provide coverage for emergency contraception.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/atty-hobby-lobby-offer-morning-pill-18078798#.UN2VjnfhcUo) While I think Green is being a world-class douchebag for his holier-than-thou posturing, I think this is actually a good lawsuit because it will help to force the discussion about the line between a religious institution and a business, which is something that needs to be discussed. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/77 "2012-12-28T13:37:47Z")
Aren’t insurance companies required to cover contraception, or am I mistaken about that? If insurance companies are required, then how can an employer defy the law? How can they purchase health insurance that doesn’t cover contraception? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/78 "2012-12-28T14:09:45Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Aren’t insurance companies required to cover contraception, or am I mistaken about that? > > If insurance companies are required, then how can an employer defy the law? How can they purchase health insurance that doesn’t cover contraception? Insurance companies are required to cover contraception, and employers are required to provide that coverage. There is, however, an [exemption for churches](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/02/the-truth-about-contraception-obamacare-and-the-church/). Note that the law says _churches_, not “businesses whose owners claim that they should be exempt because they’re Christians.” Basically, Hobby Lobby is trying to have it both ways. They’re trying to be a privately-owned company operated for profit, while claiming that they merit a religious exemption. The misunderstandings are the grey areas that include religion-owned entities that are not specifically churches, like Catholic universities and health systems; and whether the contraception provision violates personal religious liberty, which is the crux of the Hobby Lobby case. The former is worth discussing; the latter is not. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/79 "2012-12-28T14:21:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > If I believe my mail carrier is actually a lizard man from the planet Krygon, it wouldn’t be illogical for me to attack him every time he stopped by with a handful of bills and catalogs. But it wouldn’t make me right, or any less of an idiot / lunatic. Great, now I feel bad for beating up my postman so much. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/80 "2012-12-28T14:46:32Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Or stop offering health insurance to their employees. > > Which may very well be their next step. > > Then what? > > Regards, > -Bouncer- Fines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335.md?page=5)