# I Pit HOBBY LOBBY **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335 "2012-11-28T02:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1661 "2014-07-25T12:28:49Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > It was my understanding that, to Catholics, the transubstantiation is not symbolic at all. The substance of the wafter and wine actually do change to the body and blood of Christ even if the form does not. If we take Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, the shadow remains exactly the same but the substance causing that shadow has changed. The change is real and not symbolic at all even if we cannot apprehend that change. > > (the above is purely my understanding as a non-Catholic and, as such, is subject to change based on responses from actual Catholics) Your understanding earns a gold star. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1662 "2014-07-25T13:04:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sure, possibly. I don’t see how someone else’s criminal activity mitigates the RCC’s criminal activity, though. I’ll cheerfully state for the record that any organization, religious or otherwise, that engages in systemic cover-ups of this kind should be thoroughly investigated and if need be disbanded. . You’re willing to disband the public school system? Here’s the thing: you’ll end up disbanding damn near every large organization that deals with kids. Boy Scouts, sports organizations … they’ve all had them, and very few dealt with it as forthrightly as we would like, especially if we’re talking about things that happened 20, 30 years ago. Its a societal problem. The RCC to its shame was no better than anyone else, but its a myth that they were dramatically worse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1663 "2014-07-25T13:10:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > . You’re willing to disband the public school system? Maybe just teachers’ unions. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1664 "2014-07-25T13:11:18Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m not saying there’s no responsibility there. Or blame. I’m just saying that I don’t think it would be at all reasonable to say the RCC took steps to deliberately increase child molestation - they were just incredibly, foolishly pisspoor at stopping it, if and when they tried. Try as I might, I cannot see a distinction there at all, much less one worth observing. > [@](#): > > But “accomplice” says to me something much more direct and purposeful than anything you mention here. Same answer. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1665 "2014-07-25T13:19:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Try as I might, I cannot see a distinction there at all, much less one worth observing. Intent, I guess. > [@](#): > > Same answer. If nothing else, I would say “accomplice” would refer to someone complicit in the crimes in question. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1666 "2014-07-25T13:28:07Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Intent, I guess. Knowing it was happening, and choosing to cover it up and protect the perpetrators, constitutes intent enough for me. Do please note where Bernard Law is _today_, and why. > [@](#): > > If nothing else, I would say “accomplice” would refer to someone complicit in the crimes in question. Yes, and? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1667 "2014-07-25T14:03:59Z")
> [@furt](#): > > . You’re willing to disband the public school system? I’d be willing to arrest and prosecute any officers within it who were complicit. A particular school board that was as rife as the RCC may not be able to continue as an organization as a result. The necessary functions served by the organization can be shifted elsewhere and if the unnecessary functions are not picked up by anyone… no loss. The RCC has a lot of unnecessary function. Arguably, a fair amount of harmful function. And, sure… anywhere children and adults interact, some of the adults will abuse some of the children. I have no illusions about preventing it - I would like whatever power structure gives that adult his or her authority to view stopping the abuse as more important than not embarrassing the power structure itself. I have no illusions about _that_, either. > [@](#): > > Its a societal problem. The RCC to its shame was no better than anyone else, but its a myth that they were dramatically worse. I’m not trying to single out the RCC as particularly bad (though they _are_ pretty bad) - I’m bringing it up in this thread because of the particular deference it gets as an organization based on religion, related (perhaps a bit too distantly for extended further discussion in this thread) to Hobby Lobby getting deference for what is being called the owners’ “sincere religious beliefs.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1668 "2014-07-25T14:12:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Knowing it was happening, and choosing to cover it up and protect the perpetrators, constitutes intent enough for me. > > Do please note where Bernard Law is _today_, and why. > Yes, and? ’ And there is no evidence that **Bricker** is complicit with covering up for and protecting child molesters. Not that such is sufficient to be an “accomplice.” He would also have to be actually doing something to help them commit their crimes. He has done nothing to help anyone cover up child abuse. He is in no way an accomplice. **Bricker** could flat out defend covering up for pedophilia and he would not be an accomplice, any more than you would be an accomplice for saying that you thought a thief deserved to be murdered. (Not that I think this is in any way **Bricker** ’s position.) The entire crime has already been committed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1669 "2014-07-25T14:21:28Z")
What word would you choose, then? Enabler? Useful idiot? What? Please note that one \*can \*be an accomplice after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1670 "2014-07-25T15:40:52Z")
Personally, I see Bricker as a very unsympathetic victim. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335/1671 "2015-11-17T16:11:27Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This is my first Pit, so I hope I am doing this right. > > A FB friend of mine posted this today and it sent me on an uncharacteristic tirade > > I was incensed at the stupidity spewing from this letter. I am offended he would hide behind his supposed Blibical principles when NOTHING in the Bible supports his moronic stance. Plus his utter ignorance about how the morning after pill works also set me off. > > Here is what I posted on my friend’s FB page. > This is one of the rare times a FB post has made me this angry. The only other time in recent memory was when a FB friend (who I promptly defriended after several stupid political posts) posted her belief that proceeds from Girl Scout Cookies directly funded abortion services at Planned Parenthood. Where do these idiots get this crap? Maybe some of the crap comes from “documentaries” like this one: (just a trailer) Apparently, there is no overpopulation (BTW, my older niece totally believes this), you won’t leave a carbon footprint, you’re supposed to be fruitful and multiple because Genesis, you can afford tons of kids because g-d will provide, and so on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hobby-lobby/642335.md?page=83)