# I pit HP as a bunch of lying toner thieves! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114 "2014-01-07T05:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/21 "2014-01-08T00:03:45Z")
I feel your pain. It’s all a ruse to get us to buy more expensive-as-gold toner. I bought a new Epson printer, and the engineers decided to install features to deter users from installing generic toner. Unfortunately, it’s so sensitive that it wouldn’t accept the Epson-branded toner that came packaged with it, either. Every time I tried to print, it helpfully told me that it didn’t recognize the toner. I had to take each cartridge out and shake it, then wait for it to warm up the ink, before it would print. Fun times, especially when you were in a hurry. After that toner ran out, I installed Epson-branded toner I bought on Amazon, thinking that it would finally work correctly. Close, but no cigar. It recognized 3 of the 4 but continues to balk from time to time at cyan. I don’t know why. Maybe it feels that “cyan” is pretentious because everyone knows it’s actually blue with a 'tude. I’ll never buy another Epson printer. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/22 "2014-01-08T00:03:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The manual simply says to change the toner cartridge “when print quality is no longer acceptable.” Who the fuck reads the manual for an office printer? Damn thing says “Toner low”. People that work there swap the cartridge. Nobody has seen the fucking manual since 1987, when it probably got used to prop up the table in the break room. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/23 "2014-01-08T00:05:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You don’t seem to get it either. They’re not forcing you to change the cartridge early. The manual simply says to change the toner cartridge “when print quality is no longer acceptable.” First of all, _what manual_? If the printer came with one, it would have to be on the CD that I didn’t use. Secondly, if that was true, there would be no need to press the damn OK button a zillion times. I’m a big boy - I can read the low toner warning, and I can see the print quality with my own eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/24 "2014-01-08T00:22:48Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Who the fuck reads the manual for an office printer? Which is one reason paper manuals are no longer provided. That and the expense. But the information is there in the user manual, which is presumably on the CD and is certainly on the website. And above I quoted HP’s instructions for disabling the “low toner” nag. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/25 "2014-01-08T02:08:08Z")
OP - At what level of toner do you feel that a low-toner warning is acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/26 "2014-01-08T02:14:45Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > OP - At what level of toner do you feel that a low-toner warning is acceptable? The warning wouldn’t be a problem if it gave a % of toner remaining. But like mine did, just saying the toner is LOW when there’s 60% remaining is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/27 "2014-01-08T02:18:33Z")
Most people who use business grade printers don’t have time to screw around getting every last gain of toner out of a cart, and have more pride than to send around faded, streaky pages. But amuse yourself in your own way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/28 "2014-01-08T02:18:49Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I feel your pain. It’s all a ruse to get us to buy more expensive-as-gold toner. > > I bought a new Epson printer, and the engineers decided to install features to deter users from installing generic toner. Unfortunately, it’s so sensitive that it wouldn’t accept the Epson-branded toner that came packaged with it, either. Every time I tried to print, it helpfully told me that it didn’t recognize the toner. I had to take each cartridge out and shake it, then wait for it to warm up the ink, before it would print. Fun times, especially when you were in a hurry. > > After that toner ran out, I installed Epson-branded toner I bought on Amazon, thinking that it would finally work correctly. Close, but no cigar. It recognized 3 of the 4 but continues to balk from time to time at cyan. I don’t know why. Maybe it feels that “cyan” is pretentious because everyone knows it’s actually blue with a 'tude. > > I’ll never buy another Epson printer. Toner from Epson? How many years ago was this? Epson has not made a laser printer in over a decade. inkjets on the other hand, well ink is slightly more expensive than Plutonium… ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/29 "2014-01-08T02:18:52Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > OP - At what level of toner do you feel that a low-toner warning is acceptable? Low at 20%, very low at 5% ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/30 "2014-01-08T02:36:36Z")
You think telling you ink is low, and making you go through menus to keep printing is bad? My Epson CX7400, soon to be replaced, won’t print at all. It just stops completely and won’t print anything even if just one color is low. Run slightly low on cyan ink, and it will not print that plain black & white text term paper or TPS report that’s due in the morning. I’m going try an HP 8100 which is recommended by [thewirecutter.com](http://thewirecutter.com) as a color inkjet with reasonably priced ink. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/31 "2014-01-09T01:34:23Z")
> [@The\_Vorlon](#): > > Toner from Epson? How many years ago was this? Epson has not made a laser printer in over a decade. inkjets on the other hand, well ink is slightly more expensive than Plutonium… It’s an inkjet. Toner = cartridges. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/32 "2014-01-15T19:17:52Z")
No matter what problem you may have in the real world, you can count on a handful of dopers to be far more infuriating. HP deliberately designed a system that says low toner when over 60% is left. There is no definition of low that includes over half of something. They LIED. That is something that is morally wrong. Printing with a toner or getting upset about being lied to is not immoral. It doesn’t take the smartest mind to figure out who it makes sense to side with. There is no danger of streaking when you have 60% toner left. Stop making up artificial excuses. Why is it so hard for some of you to allow for the possibility that HP might have done something wrong? It’s not like this practice hasn’t been repeatedly reported on. The fact that you want to deny it just proves your ignorance even further. HP regularly lies about how much ink you have left. Google it, for goodness sake. How can such a smart board have such utter idiocy involved in it? Is there something about this particular forum that lobotomizes the participants? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/33 "2014-01-15T19:21:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > How can such a smart board have such utter idiocy involved in it? Is there something about this particular forum that lobotomizes the participants? You’re here. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/34 "2014-01-15T22:31:54Z")
> [@The\_Vorlon](#): > > Toner from Epson? How many years ago was this? Epson has not made a laser printer in over a decade. What are [these](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=epson+laser+printer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=EgzXUpnZMufG7AbesoGwCw#q=epson+laser+printer&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=shop)? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/35 "2014-01-15T22:39:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No matter what problem you may have in the real world, you can count on a handful of dopers to be far more infuriating. > > HP deliberately designed a system that says low toner when over 60% is left. There is no definition of low that includes over half of something. They LIED. That is something that is morally wrong. Printing with a toner or getting upset about being lied to is not immoral. It doesn’t take the smartest mind to figure out who it makes sense to side with. > > There is no danger of streaking when you have 60% toner left. Stop making up artificial excuses. Why is it so hard for some of you to allow for the possibility that HP might have done something wrong? It’s not like this practice hasn’t been repeatedly reported on. The fact that you want to deny it just proves your ignorance even further. HP regularly lies about how much ink you have left. Google it, for goodness sake. > > How can such a smart board have such utter idiocy involved in it? Is there something about this particular forum that lobotomizes the participants? The OP’s cartridge was a ‘starter’ - containing considerably less toner than a regular one - maybe half or one quarter of the regular fill. I imagine the engineering of the cartridges (including the calibration of the toner level sensor) is probably the same for both starter and regular - I don’t suppose it makes sense to do otherwise - so 60% of a starter cartridge is probably equivalent to less than 20% of a regular one. It seems to me that 20% is about the level where the printer ought to be warning the user that toner is low (not empty) - so that the user can think about ordering a spare. If the printer says toner is low when it’s got 60% of a _normal toner cart_, then there’s a problem. But that hasn’t happened. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/36 "2014-01-15T22:40:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > HP deliberately designed a system that says low toner when over 60% is left. I don’t see where you’ve established that. As I and others have pointed out, the warning goes off when **around 50% of the original fill of a lightly-filled starter cartridge was left**. If you have a car with a full 20-gallon tank and the low fuel light goes on with a gallon left, that’s one subjective situation. If you start with 2 gallons and the light goes on with a gallon left, that’s another - and complaining that you didn’t get the same results is just nonsense. If you want to continue to bitch about the ethics and engineering of the cheap-ass starter cartridges - like, complaining that HP did not meticulously re-engineer the low-toner sensor to represent 5% of the miniscule fill - go right ahead. But it won’t undo my deep satisfaction with my long line of HP printers and the hundreds of cartridges I’ve run though them. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114/37 "2014-01-17T02:59:36Z")
Right there with you on hating HP. The one work just got me does the same damn thing starting wayyyyyyyy to early and we’ve tried, including a tech from the printer place to turn those warnings off. Because THEY FREEZE UP MY SYSTEM! And half the time won’t go away when I call up the Task Manager. Forcing a hard shut down. Thanks, HP for making my work day miserable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-hp-as-a-bunch-of-lying-toner-thieves/678114.md?page=1)