The article says some EXPECT a hand written note. That implies much more than it is merely polite or optional. With that in mind it becomes a necessity to write them in all circumstances because you never know what kind of tight ass you have run into.
[QUOTE=villa]
Wow - that’s not the point. What that would justify is not giving extra kudos to someone who wrote the thank you note. You, on the other hand, claim you would not hire someone who wrote one, despite the fact they might be simply a person who considers it the polite thing to do to thank someone for taking time out of their day.
As you said, you don’t think not sending a thankyou note is disrespectful. How on earth does that translate into sending a thankyou note is a diaqualifier. Only in your contrarian little universe, apparently.
The idea you cannot be an independent thinker and show what MANY people consider to be a common courtesy is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
[/QUOTE]
That’s the thing: “common courtesy” is such bullshit. It’s sent for a purpose – and being nice isn’t it.
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
The article says some EXPECT a hand written note. That implies much more than it is merely polite or optional. With that in mind it becomes a necessity to write them in all circumstances because you never know what kind of tight ass you have run into.
[/QUOTE]
How does that make it a necessity? If 75% don’t care, why is it necessary to placate the other 25%? Dudley Garrett is demonstrating that you never know what type of tight-ass you’re going to run into – maybe it will be one who despises you have having followed up with a note and automatically knocks you out of the running. You can’t please everybody; you just have to do what you personally think it effective. If you can’t choke out a thank-you note of feel like by sending one you’ve emasculated yourself, then don’t send it. If you think it’s a good idea that some people are likely to appreciate, and those who don’t probably won’t care either way – my view – then send it.
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
The article says some EXPECT a hand written note. That implies much more than it is merely polite or optional. With that in mind it becomes a necessity to write them in all circumstances because you never know what kind of tight ass you have run into.
[/QUOTE]
Waah. Be a man, suck it up, and send the damn letter and stop whining about it like a six year-old being asked to turn off Spongebob to make the bed.
Engineer here. I wore pants and a shirt. With clunky black work shoes.
Oh and I wear jeans to work every day. Usually with t-shirts.
We are not expected to dress like we’re going to a wedding here in my software company.
I’m a software engineer (degree in computer engineering), and if all I ever did was follow the status quo, there would be no development happening. My entire job is to create shit that did not exist until I made it exist.
Stuffing me into a suit and forcing me to sit at a desk all day doing the status quo doesn’t really work that well.
You realize that with engineering a lot of the time we’re talking about problems that have never been solved before, right? There’s no checklist for designing a completely new enterprise application.
This isn’t tech support, or troubleshooting shit that someone else designed, prototyped, built and put into production.
[QUOTE=catsix]
I’m a software engineer (degree in computer engineering), and if all I ever did was follow the status quo, there would be no development happening. My entire job is to create shit that did not exist until I made it exist.
Stuffing me into a suit and forcing me to sit at a desk all day doing the status quo doesn’t really work that well.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me, but we’re in complete agreement here.
I was agreeing with you.
Me and my killer coding ninja monkey.
[QUOTE=catsix]
I’m a software engineer (degree in computer engineering), and if all I ever did was follow the status quo, there would be no development happening. My entire job is to create shit that did not exist until I made it exist.
[/QUOTE]
Some of us manage to do that and follow common social mores. Who knew?
[QUOTE=catsix]
Me and my killer coding ninja monkey.
[/QUOTE]
Does *the monkey * wear a suit?
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
What do they wear? 
[/QUOTE]
Clothes. Pants and a shirt.
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett]
That’s the thing: “common courtesy” is such bullshit. It’s sent for a purpose – and being nice isn’t it.
[/QUOTE]
What is wrong with you? you are demanding that applicants conform to your ideas of non conformity. What bullshit.
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett]
If I’m hiring for a technical position (which I usually am), I want someone who’s going to sit in front of their monitor all day figuring out problems. I don’t want someone who follows the status quo "just “because.” I want people who can think for themselves and won’t trap themselves in a box doing things they think will make others happy. They need to be independent thinkers to be successful at their jobs.
[/QUOTE]
I gather you feel that sending a thank-you is convincing evidence that this is not the case? As a technical person who sits in front of a monitor all day figuring out problems, I find that hypothesis quite dubious.
“Independent thinker” ~= “nonconformist”.
[QUOTE=brad_d]
I gather you feel that sending a thank-you is convincing evidence that this is not the case? As a technical person who sits in front of a monitor all day figuring out problems, I find that hypothesis quite dubious.
Nonconformism and technical talent don’t correlate nearly as well as some folks like to think, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
He’s not saying they do. He’s just saying, by God, if he’s going to hire someone incompetent he may as well hire the one who designed a mechanical giraffe stimulator.
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett]
Wrong. If I’m hiring for a technical position (which I usually am), I want someone who’s going to sit in front of their monitor all day figuring out problems. I don’t want someone who follows the status quo "just “because.” I want people who can think for themselves and won’t trap themselves in a box doing things they think will make others happy. They need to be independent thinkers to be successful at their jobs. Showing up late for an interview is disrespectful; not sending a thank-you is not.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t say this often, but I agree completely with DudleyGarrett.
Thank you notes in general are one of the dumbest things “polite society” has ever come up with, but including them in the job interview process is just ridiculous.
But that isn’t what he said - he didn’t just say “I think someone who doesn’t hire someone who fails to send a thank you note is an idiot.” Had he said that, I would have been in a certain amount of agreement. He said that he would not hire someone who did send a thank you note. And that is plain idiotic.
[QUOTE=catsix]
You’re in HR huh? Dealing with HR is the biggest waste of time I’ve ever had interviewing for any type of engineering position. Who the fuck cares what course of study I took in high school when I have actually been working in software engineering and information technology for seven years?
Get real.
[/QUOTE]
Just to be clear - I am NOT in HR, I just happen to hire (and fire and interview) a lot of people. Software engineers among them, BTW.
I would never run a candidate through HR, they get to see HR AFTER they are hired to get the paperwork filed, and to sign off on all of the various company plans.
[QUOTE=villa]
But that isn’t what he said - he didn’t just say “I think someone who doesn’t hire someone who fails to send a thank you note is an idiot.” Had he said that, I would have been in a certain amount of agreement. He said that he would not hire someone who did send a thank you note. And that is plain idiotic.
[/QUOTE]
But there is a kind of idiot’s logic to it. Those that would send just a “thank you note” are probably pretty aware they have no shot at the job and this is a last ditch effort to get the company to remember them.
But those that send a followup email/letter asking about the position and closing with “Thanks for interviewing me!” probably performed better in the interview to begin with.
I don’t really know. He has mastered the art of invisibility.
And most of the ‘paperwork’ that they want to have filled out is a complete waste of everyone’s time. Having me fill out a generic job application with things like ‘What is your desired hourly rate of pay?’ and once again collecting my name, address and telephone number (which are on my resume) is a pointless exercise that exists only to justify the fact that HR exists.
Shit, I signed up for my benefits online. It took 10 minutes, and I was directed to a website run not by my company, but by the insurance company. using an alphanumeric identifier and my employee number. Same with my retirement plan.
I still had to listen to HR drone on endlessly about how they need a valid address for my paycheck to go to and so I need to fill out the application. Hint, it’s on my W-4, which payroll has in their hands.
Seriously, HR should just fuck off in the corner and well call if we need 'em.
And they should change the name back to Personnel. The entire idea of ‘human resources’ reminds me of fucking Soylent Green.
[QUOTE=catsix]
I don’t really know. He has mastered the art of invisibility.
And most of the ‘paperwork’ that they want to have filled out is a complete waste of everyone’s time. Having me fill out a generic job application with things like ‘What is your desired hourly rate of pay?’ and once again collecting my name, address and telephone number (which are on my resume) is a pointless exercise that exists only to justify the fact that HR exists.
Shit, I signed up for my benefits online. It took 10 minutes, and I was directed to a website run not by my company, but by the insurance company. using an alphanumeric identifier and my employee number. Same with my retirement plan.
I still had to listen to HR drone on endlessly about how they need a valid address for my paycheck to go to and so I need to fill out the application. Hint, it’s on my W-4, which payroll has in their hands.
Seriously, HR should just fuck off in the corner and well call if we need 'em.
And they should change the name back to Personnel. The entire idea of ‘human resources’ reminds me of fucking Soylent Green.
[/QUOTE]
I understand your point, and used to share it. Then I got sued by a motherfucking waste of human resource bitch who decided that the reason she did not get a promotion was that I hate women. Lucky for us, we had all the information we needed in HR’s crap pile to not only fire the bitch, but also take away all bennies, deferred bonuses, and accrued vacation.
HR paperwork was created by the devil of lawsuits. Having had it cover my ass, I know happily tolerate it.
A lot of it COULD be improved in terms of data entry, I agree. However, that software costs a chunk of change and smaller firms (like my current one) are still stuck on dead tree versions for record keeping.
[QUOTE=JohnT]
Waah. Be a man, suck it up, and send the damn letter and stop whining about it like a six year-old being asked to turn off Spongebob to make the bed.
[/QUOTE]
You should get inti HR. It would suit you.