# I Pit idiots/hypocrites unconcerned about America's sex trafficking **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520 "2011-05-28T02:48:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/141 "2011-07-05T19:46:01Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > The exactl line I quoted is within that document… I might have the wrong one - but that number was cited a few times - I will look. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/142 "2011-07-05T20:53:19Z")
Given the magnitude of prostitution in the US and the degree to which it is represented as a serious problem, in googling around it’s interesting how little hard data exists on the demographics of prostitution. You would think criminologists and sociologists looking for dissertation topics would be all over this. Just few observations. While I am sure physical coercion exists almost every single article or film I have seen by ex-prostitutes or about street prostitutes emphasized that being a prostitute was entirely their decision, and the majority of the time it was initially simply for money and eventually for drugs, and while they might have had boyfriends or other SO’s handling the hookups, _they_ ( the hookers) were in charge of the enterprise, and only rarely were pimps involved. Pimps seem to be an endangered species with most prostitutes using escort services or the Internet to make hook ups. With respect to San Francisco it is a mecca for the homeless and rootless and young runaways. It has among the worst homeless/street person problems in the US. Using San Francisco as a demographic template to analogize prostitution numbers for the rest of the US is going to yield pretty useless projections. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/143 "2011-07-05T21:03:11Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Just few observations. While I am sure physical coercion exists almost every single article or film I have seen by ex-prostitutes or about street prostitutes emphasized that being a prostitute was entirely their decision, and the majority of the time it was initially simply for money and eventually for drugs, and while they might have had boyfriends or other SO’s handling the hookups, _they_ ( the hookers) were in charge of the enterprise, and only rarely were pimps involved. Pimps seem to be an endangered species with most prostitutes using escort services or the Internet to make hook ups. > . Perhaps you are only looking at articles and seeing documentaries that confirm your bias. I saw a British doc that was pro-legalization, pro-brothel, in which most of the women, interviewed said they got their start underage, being pimped. Even at the Bunny Ranch, many of the women put up their hands when asked if they were pimped underage, and one of the bunny ranch girls even said she was quite young, I think 12 when asked. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/144 "2011-07-05T21:05:42Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > It of course would be averaged, I’m pretty sure there are some small towns with a problem. > > But, this is getting totally off the point. Do you think the 827 annual arrest reflect 100% of the youth prostitution market in the USA in a year? That is what the Village Voice is claiming. > > I am saying that I do not know the exact number, but I think it is significantly higher based on what I have observed in my life - and North America wide. I think it is closer to 125,000 based on my own method - but my method is not scientific and I admit that. > > I am also saying using the number of arrest is a worst indicator for this issue thank either U Penn or anecdotal evidence due to many factors with youth prostitution, including police apathy and youth lying about their age and being loyal to pimps. > > I am saying the Village Voices article, which insults an actor, and calls the U Penn study propaganda is bad journalism, and it is trying to be like FOX news. > > Canada has done more research, and has numbers far higher - even for yearly arrests. And extrapolating Canadian numbers would give you a number way higher than 827, even for arrests! > > Here is Canada’s arrest numbers. > [http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x1997002-eng.pdf](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x1997002-eng.pdf) > > The number when goggling that keeps coming up for Canada is about 10,000 child prostitutes across Canada - so if you consider the USA has over 10 times the population - 100,000 is reasonable in the USA for a guess. > > I will look for more articles later. Um, your link says that police reported a total of 7,165 reports of prostitution for all of Canada in 1995. That’s prostitution in general, not child prostitution, not forced prostitution. I’m not saying your personal experiences are irrelevant to the thread. I am saying that they are too small and isolated to use as the basis of estimating statistics for a nation of 300,000,000 people. Quick, without looking it up, how many police officers are in your city? How many plumbers? The OP’s original link claimed that there were 300,000 sex slaves in the United States. That number was sensationalist and incorrect. And I don’t think propagating incorrect information is the best way to help the thousands of people who have to worry about being robbed, extorted, or arrested because of our government’s pointless war on vice. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/145 "2011-07-05T21:13:54Z")
Here is another way of getting to a much higher number than the ~800 of the village voice for underage prostitutes. According to the National Runaway Switchboard, between 1.6 and 2.8 million youth run away in a year. [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third\_party/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third_party/) Between 1% and 2% lists their means of survival is sex work/prostitution when calling NRS. [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010\_nrs\_call\_statistics/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010_nrs_call_statistics/) Many kids who do sex work occasional or engage in survival sex, or are exploited by someone older - would not consider themselves sexually exploited - so this counts only those who have as their primary means of income being sex work. This also doesn’t count kids who don’t consider themselves to be runaways, living with a boyfriend/pimp, or living with friends, or even living at home. So the lowest number of runaway kids in the sex trade in the USA using this data is 16,000. This should be the minimum starting point - not Village Voice’s number of 827. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/146 "2011-07-05T21:23:01Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Um, your link says that police reported a total of 7,165 reports of prostitution for all of Canada in 1995. That’s prostitution in general, not child prostitution, not forced prostitution. > > I’m not saying your personal experiences are irrelevant to the thread. I am saying that they are too small and isolated to use as the basis of estimating statistics for a nation of 300,000,000 people. > > Quick, without looking it up, how many police officers are in your city? How many plumbers? > > The OP’s original link claimed that there were 300,000 sex slaves in the United States. That number was sensationalist and incorrect. And I don’t think propagating incorrect information is the best way to help the thousands of people who have to worry about being robbed, extorted, or arrested because of our government’s pointless war on vice. My city is currently at 1,000,000 people - when I was a teen - it was about 650,000 people. I also lived for a short time in Vancouver BC, and visited Toronto Ontario, and also went to Seattle WA and Portland OR as part of my life as a street kid. Albeit Vancouver, Portland and especially Seattle were meccas for homeless kids - the culture was not significantly different there than in my home city of Calgary. And to repeat myself - I am not saying the numbers of 100,000 to 300,000 are the exactly correct numbers.We’ve all read a dozen times now that the study the numbers are of at risk kids in North America. Not the number who are being exploited in the USA - so these numbers have been misused and misquoted which is bad. And perhaps my city which was during some of the time on the streets quite a hotbed for vice due to the upcoming Olympics and my numbers could be high due to that, but the Village Voice’s numbers are dismissive, ridiculous, and not even worth considering due to the lack of journalistic standards in that article. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/147 "2011-07-05T21:26:17Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Perhaps you are only looking at articles and seeing documentaries that confirm your bias. I saw a British doc that was pro-legalization, pro-brothel, in which most of the women, interviewed said they got their start underage, being pimped. Even at the Bunny Ranch, many of the women put up their hands when asked if they were pimped underage, and one of the bunny ranch girls even said she was quite young, I think 12 when asked. Here is a link to the documentary: The WI Guide to Brothels ttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285149/ ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/148 "2011-07-05T21:27:38Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Perhaps you are only looking at articles and seeing documentaries that confirm your bias. I saw a British doc that was pro-legalization, pro-brothel, in which most of the women, interviewed said they got their start underage, being pimped. Even at the Bunny Ranch, many of the women put up their hands when asked if they were pimped underage, and one of the bunny ranch girls even said she was quite young, I think 12 when asked. I’m talking about how business is being handled _today_ not 10,15, or 20 years ago when pimps were a much bigger deal in directing business for a hooker than they are these days. Here’s an article about the direction it’s going. [How Tech Tools Transformed New York’s Sex Trade](http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_sextrade/all/1) > [@](#): > > What About the Pimps? > It’s hard out there for a pimp—especially now. Changes in the sex industry have rendered them superfluous. I met 11 pimps working out of midtown Manhattan in 1999, and all were out of work within four years. One enlisted in the military; two have been homeless. Only one now has a full-time job, working as a janitor in a charter school. I asked one of them how pimping experience helps him in the legit economy: “You learn one thing,” he said. “For a good blow job, a man will do just about anything. What can I do with that knowledge? I have no idea.” ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/149 "2011-07-05T21:38:37Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Here is another way of getting to a much higher number than the ~800 of the village voice for underage prostitutes. > > According to the National Runaway Switchboard, between 1.6 and 2.8 million youth run away in a year. > > [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third\_party/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third_party/) > > Between 1% and 2% lists their means of survival is sex work/prostitution when calling NRS. > [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010\_nrs\_call\_statistics/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010_nrs_call_statistics/) > > Many kids who do sex work occasional or engage in survival sex, or are exploited by someone older - would not consider themselves sexually exploited - so this counts only those who have as their primary means of income being sex work. > > This also doesn’t count kids who don’t consider themselves to be runaways, living with a boyfriend/pimp, or living with friends, or even living at home. > > So the lowest number of runaway kids in the sex trade in the USA using this data is 16,000. > > This should be the minimum starting point - not Village Voice’s number of 827. 16,000 seems like a much more reasonable number than 300,000. And the VV never claimed there were only 827. That is the average annual number of arrests. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/150 "2011-07-05T21:39:59Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m talking about how business is being handled _today_ not 10,15, or 20 years ago when pimps were a much bigger deal in directing business for a hooker than they are these days. > > Here’s an article about the direction it’s going. > > [How Tech Tools Transformed New York’s Sex Trade](http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_sextrade/all/1) Although the high-end has broken free via the web, I don’t think the low end has - and it seems that article is about the upper end. You are comparing diamond encrusted apples to oranges. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/151 "2011-07-05T21:41:56Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > 16,000 seems like a much more reasonable number than 300,000. And the VV never claimed there were only 827. That is the average annual number of arrests. Do I need to quote VV’s article ---- again. They said “Compare 827 annually with the 100,000 to 300,000 per year touted in the propaganda.” - they are claiming 827! But that is part of their tactic to FOX news you with bad data, comparing 817 arrests to the number of people “at risk” - a perfect example of bad journalism. And to top it off 16,000 is a starting low point - it is just counting runaway kids who report it as their means of income. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/152 "2011-07-05T23:22:39Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > “The relatively small proportion of youths (12 to 17 year-olds) charged may reflect their frequent diversion to social service agencies by police, and the use of other deterrence practices aimed at juveniles.” What does this sentence say to you, exactly? > [@lexi](#): > > Do I need to quote VV’s article ---- again. They said “Compare 827 annually with the 100,000 to 300,000 per year touted in the propaganda.” - they are claiming 827! But that is part of their tactic to FOX news you with bad data, comparing 817 arrests to the number of people “at risk” - a perfect example of bad journalism. You need to READ the article, because you just keep lying about what the voice said. Or did you genuinely fail to comprehend it? Either way, you are spreading untruth. Aggressively. > [@lexi](#): > > The Village Voice don’t present evidence - they use a diversionary FOX news like method to denounce a **recognized** study. Find a real study. Pardon me? “recognized”? Recognized by whom? Recognized as what? Oh right…_recognized_ as **complete and total garbage** by people in a position to know! And you evidently have no idea how Fox does things, because they sure don’t bring the facts the way the voice did: > [@](#): > > Such broad brushstrokes by professors have not endeared the study to such serious social scientists as\*\* [David Finkelhor](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/David+Finkelhor), professor of sociology at the [University of New Hampshire](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/University+of+New+Hampshire) and director of [Crimes Against Children Research Center](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Crimes+Against+Children+Research+Center).\*\* Finkelhor’s work is cited in the University of Pennsylvania study, and he helped review the report—not that he could’ve changed the direction of it. > > “As far as I’m concerned,\*\* [the University of Pennsylvania study] has no scientific credibility to it,\*\*” he says. " **That figure was in a report that was never really subjected to any kind of peer review. It wasn’t published in any scientific journal."** > [@](#): > > [Professor Steve Doig](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Steve+Doig), Knight Chair of Journalism at [Arizona State University](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Arizona+State+University), said the **“study cannot be relied upon as authoritative.”** > [@lexi](#): > > I do think once research is done, the number will be much bigger than ~800 I don’t know about “much” but I know the Voice agrees that the number is bigger than 800. Even bigger than 827. The voice NEVER ONCE said, claimed, or in any other way suggested that the total number of child prostitutes in the US is 827 and your insistance that they did is incorrect. It is false. It is untrue. Is that deliberate, or are you really in the dark about what the article said? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > But a detailed review of police files across the nation tells another story. > > > > [Village Voice Media](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Village+Voice+Media+Inc.) spent two months researching law enforcement data. > > We examined arrests for juvenile prostitution in the nation’s 37 largest cities during a 10-year period. > > > > To the extent that underage prostitution exists, it primarily exists in those large cities. > > > > Law enforcement records show that there were only 8,263 arrests across America for child prostitution during the most recent decade. > > > > That’s 827 arrests per year. > > > > Some cities, such as [Salt Lake City](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Salt+Lake+City) and [Orlando](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Orlando), go an entire year without busting a child prostitute. Others, such as [Las Vegas](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Las+Vegas), arrest or recover 100 or so per year. > > > > Compare 827 annually with the 100,000 to 300,000 per year touted in the propaganda. > > > > The nation’s 37 largest cities do not give you every single underage arrest for hooking. Juveniles can go astray in rural Kansas. > > > > But common sense prevails in the police data. As you move away from such major urban areas as Los Angeles, underage prostitution plunges. > > > > When the local police data was **shared with a leading figure in the struggle against underage prostitution,** **the research struck her as ringing true.** > > > > “The Seattle Police Department totally have a handle on the situation and understand the problem,” says [Melinda Giovengo](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Melinda+Giovengo), executive director of YouthCare, which runs a live-in shelter for underage prostitutes in Seattle. **“That seems to be a very accurate count and is reflective of what the data shows.”** > > > [@](#): > > > > [**It is true that police departments do not arrest every juvenile engaged in sex work.** But, surely, they don’t ignore the problem.](http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-06-29/news/real-men-get-their-facts-straight-sex-trafficking-ashton-kutcher-demi-moore/2/) > > > > So, if there are slightly more than 800 underage arrests a year, where did an estimate as horrible as several hundred thousand come from? > > **There are, quite simply** , no precise numbers on child prostitution. > > > [@](#): > > > > “All we have in the way of really hard evidence is what the police arrests are,” he says. “They’re way low. They’re certainly not an underestimate, but it seems to me that it’s incumbent on anyone who is writing about the problem to at least include that number on one end of the continuum, because\*\* that’s probably the most justifiable number you have.\*\*” > > > [@](#): > > > > Those 18 teams confirmed they’d identified 248 children involved in sex trafficking over the 30-month period. > > > > In other words, with the full authority of federal law enforcement, 18 joint task forces were lucky to average eight kids a month—or 100 per year. > > > > Give the 27 non-reporting task forces the benefit of the doubt. If they’d operated at the capacity of the functional 18, they would have added another 150 kids per year. > > > > If all 45 task forces had had the same degree of success, they would, possibly, have located a total of 250 kids per year who were trafficked. > > > > Not 100,000, and certainly not 300,000. > > > > After millions upon millions of dollars, after years of raising awareness, after incalculable effort by religious, civic, and municipal workers, after focused attention from local and federal law enforcement: Why so few cases prosecuted and why so few children rescued? > > > [@](#): > > > > [Jay Albanese](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Jay+Albanese), a criminologist at [Virginia Commonwealth University](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Virginia+Commonwealth+University), spent four years heading up the Department of Justice’s research division. > > “There’s tons of estimates on human trafficking,” says Albanese. "They’re all crap… It’s all guesswork, speculation… The numbers are inherently unbelievable. > > “[The latest report] shows 2,500 investigations were begun by the 42 human-trafficking task forces. But only 30 or 40 percent of those have been confirmed as trafficking cases, and only 300 or so are actual arrests. The point is, given the 42 investigative trafficking task forces—and these people have undergone training—the actual number of cases always seems to be just a fraction of these very high estimates.” > > He adds, “I wonder if these people putting up these very high estimates are helping or hurting the cause.” > [@lexi](#): > > So then if you have no idea - why is it hard to believe that the numbers may end up on the high end of that range? Because, based on what we DO know, it’s irrational. > [@lexi](#): > > Here is another way of getting to a much higher number than the ~800 of the village voice for underage prostitutes. Oooo! Is the goal to find a way to justify the numbers you want to believe? Well hell, there’s boatloads of ways to do THAT, starting with the employment of an [anoscope](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoscopy)… > [@](#): > > According to the National Runaway Switchboard, between 1.6 and 2.8 million youth run away in a year. > > [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third\_party/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/third_party/) > > Between 1% and 2% lists their means of survival is sex work/prostitution when calling NRS. > [http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010\_nrs\_call\_statistics/](http://www.1800runaway.org/learn/research/2010_nrs_call_statistics/) > > Many kids who do sex work occasional or engage in survival sex, or are exploited by someone older - would not consider themselves sexually exploited - so this counts only those who have as their primary means of income being sex work. > > This also doesn’t count kids who don’t consider themselves to be runaways, living with a boyfriend/pimp, or living with friends, or even living at home. > > So the lowest number of runaway kids in the sex trade in the USA using this data is 16,000. > > This should be the minimum starting point - not Village Voice’s number of 827. Really? Why? Especially since “1800runaway” is completely LYING about the statistic? They cite _1. Hammer, H., Finkelhor, D., & Sedlak, A. (2002). Runaway / Thrownaway Children: National Estimates and Characteristics. National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children. Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention._ Have you read that study or any significant part of it? I have. So have those rascals at VV: > [@](#): > > Yet the federal government’s own research acknowledges that “most runaway/thrown-away youth were gone less than one week (77 percent)”—hardly enough time to take up prostitution—“and only 7 percent were away more than one month,” according to the National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children 2002, commissioned by the [Department of Justice](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/U.S.+Department+of+Justice). Now the second numbers are their own, and they report 1-2% stating prostitution is their means of survival. So, workin with the REAL numbers from the report they lie about, (Look it up, just like I did. Google is your friend. It’s a 407 page PDF, but you don’t actually need to read every page to find the facts, I promise) combined with their own numbers, your 16,000 kids in the sex trade magically shrinks to between (could I have a drum roll, please…) **91 at the lowest end and 620 at the highest!!!** That’s using the VV’s 7%. Being a little more aggressive, I think it can be argued that the number is actually 14%. So double all of it, and you are still at less than 200 on the low end and a little more than 1200 at the high end. If you are going to argue about things like this, bring some facts. When you do, remember to go further than Page 1 of your cites. Also, don’t assume that because your source has a footnote citing their source that they have accurately reported the facts from that source…that’s really deadly and you aren’t alone in making that mistake. And while personal experience is certainly interesting and valid as a part of the discussion, you really aren’t going to get very far trying to sell your blatent guesses as legitimately worthwhile statistics based on your personal experience, that’s not how its’ done. And finally, mistquoting and mischaracterizing and misunderstanding the plainly written and linked words available to everyone and insisting that they say and mean things they don’t is also a really terrible strategy for legitimizing your argument. Well, my work here is done… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/153 "2011-07-05T23:24:28Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Do I need to quote VV’s article ---- again. They said “Compare 827 annually with the 100,000 to 300,000 per year touted in the propaganda.” - they are claiming 827! But that is part of their tactic to FOX news you with bad data, comparing 817 arrests to the number of people “at risk” - a perfect example of bad journalism. > > And to top it off 16,000 is a starting low point - it is just counting runaway kids who report it as their means of income. …lets look at that quote in context: > [@](#): > > Family Court Chronicles: “Nationwide, 100,000 to 300,000 children are at risk for sexual exploitation…” > > • Wikipedia: “Anywhere from 100,000 to 300,000 children are at risk for sexual exploitation…” > > • U.N. goodwill ambassador Julia Ormond: “100,000 to 300,000 potentially trafficked…” > > • Press TV: “Child trafficking rampant in the U.S. An FBI bulletin shows that 100,000 to 300,000 American children…” > > • Orphan Justice Center: “An estimated 100,000 to 300,000 children in forced prostitution in the U.S…” > > • C-SPAN: “Children in our country enslaved sexually…from 100,000 to 300,000…” > > But a detailed review of police files across the nation tells another story. > > Village Voice Media spent two months researching law enforcement data. > > We examined arrests for juvenile prostitution in the nation’s 37 largest cities during a 10-year period. > > To the extent that underage prostitution exists, it primarily exists in those large cities. > > Law enforcement records show that there were only 8,263 arrests across America for child prostitution during the most recent decade. > > That’s 827 arrests per year. > > Some cities, such as Salt Lake City and Orlando, go an entire year without busting a child prostitute. Others, such as Las Vegas, arrest or recover 100 or so per year. > > Compare 827 annually with the 100,000 to 300,000 per year touted in the propaganda. They are comparing sensationalized headlines to raw, actual, data. They also point out that some cities have 100 arrests, and others have zero. This is in sharp contrast to your assertions that you can take your experiences and extrapolate them to the entire United States. Their claim, in context and not cherry picked, is reasonable and fair. They are claiming that over the last ten years there have been an average of 827 arrests each year. That is undeniably true and even you would have to admit that. What is your actual dispute with the article? That it doesn’t jibe with your experience? Well, it jibes with mine. So keep quoting the article: and we will keep pointing out that the average of 827 arrests is based on actual real data and absolutely correct. They were comparing the actual number of arrests to the alarmist nature of other statements made in several different publications. In full context, nothing wrong with the article at all. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/154 "2011-07-06T00:02:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …lets look at that quote in context: > > They are comparing sensationalized headlines to raw, actual, data. They also point out that some cities have 100 arrests, and others have zero. This is in sharp contrast to your assertions that you can take your experiences and extrapolate them to the entire United States. > > Their claim, in context and not cherry picked, is reasonable and fair. They are claiming that over the last ten years there have been an average of 827 arrests each year. That is undeniably true and even you would have to admit that. > > What is your actual dispute with the article? That it doesn’t jibe with your experience? Well, it jibes with mine. > > So keep quoting the article: and we will keep pointing out that the average of 827 arrests is based on actual real data and absolutely correct. They were comparing the actual number of arrests to the alarmist nature of other statements made in several different publications. In full context, nothing wrong with the article at all. How is a quote lying? Well I guess some people like comparing apples to oranges - and then calling anyone who notices the apples a liar… Context was not used. How is calling Ashton Kutcher an idiot because he plays one on tv relavant to prostitution data too - or is that part really off base? How is using incorrect Seattle data fair, unbiased and using facts? Ooop - I mean FOX news style facts… ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/155 "2011-07-06T00:09:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …lets look at that quote in context: > > They are comparing sensationalized headlines to raw, actual, data. They also point out that some cities have 100 arrests, and others have zero. This is in sharp contrast to your assertions that you can take your experiences and extrapolate them to the entire United States. > > Their claim, in context and not cherry picked, is reasonable and fair. They are claiming that over the last ten years there have been an average of 827 arrests each year. That is undeniably true and even you would have to admit that. > > What is your actual dispute with the article? That it doesn’t jibe with your experience? Well, it jibes with mine. > > So keep quoting the article: and we will keep pointing out that the average of 827 arrests is based on actual real data and absolutely correct. They were comparing the actual number of arrests to the alarmist nature of other statements made in several different publications. In full context, nothing wrong with the article at all. Seriously, you can’t find fault with the article and the way they quote it? That is seriously bad journalism meant to mislead and confuse and anyone who thinks otherwise must either be a sheep or a FOX news fan… No argument using Village Voice’s data is considered relevant to me, and I will not even entertain anyone who chooses to consider the article as anything but a bad op-ed piece. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/156 "2011-07-06T00:23:40Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > No argument using Village Voice’s data is considered relevant to me, and I will not even entertain anyone who chooses to consider the article as anything but a bad op-ed piece. No wonder you keep talking about Fox-ian moves: you’ve got them down! Lie about the article, then dismiss anyone who references the article in any way that disagrees with your lies about it as beneath your notice! The question that comes up for me is…who exactly do you think you are impressing with this kind of sad dodge, apart from people who, like you, areperfectly happy to misrepresent and mischaracterize? Do you think anyone who isn’t a mental midget is persuaded to embrace your wild-ass guesses as something of value? ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/157 "2011-07-06T00:27:55Z")
BB - I donb’t think the 100,000 to 300,000 is the right number BUT —\> Village Voice LIED - they gave Seattle’s numbers as far lower than the Seattle police department said they were. Village Voice wrote an article that used a number which may or may not be correct (because they were wrong on Seattle’s numbers, why believe their other numbers), that included only arrests and worded things in a way to seem like they were comparing their number that was ~800 to 300,000 as if both sides of that argument were equal. That is obviously a poor comparison. Then they insulted Ashton Kutcher, and tried to paint him as being the same idiot that he played on TV. This is NOT journalism, and those are NOT facts. That is a FOX news style OP-ED. CUT THE FOX NEWS OUT!!! I am willing to admit that the city I live in at the time I lived there may have had a vice problem, and most of the other cities I lived and visited as a youth may have been mecca for homelessness and crime, so my number may be wrong, but I am willing to look for a new number. Anyone want to find other sources and start a new number, like I attempted before with a starting point using youth runaway numbers and the number of those who consider sex work their primary source of income. The starting lowest number for the USA is 16,000 using the data I found. NOW you go find something wrote by a journalist or a researcher, not a mudslinging FOX news style propagandist. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/158 "2011-07-06T00:30:17Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > No wonder you keep talking about Fox-ian moves: you’ve got them down! Lie about the article, then dismiss anyone who references the article in any way that disagrees with your lies about it as beneath your notice! > > The question that comes up for me is…who exactly do you think you are impressing with this kind of sad dodge, apart from people who, like you, areperfectly happy to misrepresent and mischaracterize? Do you think anyone who isn’t a mental midget is persuaded to embrace your wild-ass guesses as something of value? Ummm - lie about the article? Really? The article tries to compare directly the ~800 number to the 100,000 to 300,000. What does that mean? That smells like BULLSHIT to me… good thing this is the pit. And read the previous post to this one too Stoid. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/159 "2011-07-06T00:43:36Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Seriously, you can’t find fault with the article and the way they quote it? > > That is seriously bad journalism meant to mislead and confuse and anyone who thinks otherwise must either be a sheep or a FOX news fan… No argument using Village Voice’s data is considered relevant to me, and I will not even entertain anyone who chooses to consider the article as anything but a bad op-ed piece. Sheep or a FOX news fan? That’s a remarkably conformist way of accusing someone of conformity. Anyway it doesn’t matter, because anyone one who disagrees with me is a Nazi or follows Godwin’s Law. I’ll let people compare journalism for themselves. This is the article that started this thread. > **[Sex Trafficking of Americans: The Girls Next Door](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105)** > > Amy Fine Collins shows sex trafficking is much closer to home than you think; victims, younger than ever, are just as likely to be the homegrown American girl next door as illegally imported foreigners. Having gained access to victims,... This is the article I linked to which criticizes the numbers quoted by the previous article. > **[News & Politics - The Village Voice](https://www.villagevoice.com/front/news-and-politics/)** I’ll admit I find the way the village voice mocks celebrities a little tacky, but those celebrities are helping spread the incorrect information. I also don’t find it anywhere near as tacky as the Vanity Fair article’s staged black and white photo of a model weeping while a fat man washes himself at the sink. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/160 "2011-07-06T00:50:55Z")
> [@Calculon](#): > > Unfortunately reality disagrees with you. The available data shows that countries that have liberal prostitution laws are magnets for human trafficking. If you are interested in keeping women safe from sex slavery then the way to do it is to make prostitution illegal, especially for the pimps and Johns that prey on vunerable women. The conclusive point in any data to solve the question is whether the human trafficking is self-contained to countries that have legal prostitution or if it is mixed with countries that outlaw it. If the trafficking is between a country where prostitution is legal and one where it isn’t, then I believe you are wrong. If the data show it is self contained then you are right, or at least have a very very good point. So what does this data you speak of show? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520.md?page=9)