# I Pit idiots/hypocrites unconcerned about America's sex trafficking **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520 "2011-05-28T02:48:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/161 "2011-07-06T01:00:21Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Sheep or a FOX news fan? That’s a remarkably conformist way of accusing someone of conformity. Anyway it doesn’t matter, because anyone one who disagrees with me is a Nazi or follows Godwin’s Law. > > I’ll let people compare journalism for themselves. This is the article that started this thread. > > [Sex Trafficking of Americans: The Girls Next Door | Vanity Fair](http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105) > > This is the article I linked to which criticizes the numbers quoted by the previous article. > > [http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-06-29/news/real-men-get-their-facts-straight-sex-trafficking-ashton-kutcher-demi-moore/](http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-06-29/news/real-men-get-their-facts-straight-sex-trafficking-ashton-kutcher-demi-moore/) > > I’ll admit I find the way the village voice mocks celebrities a little tacky, but those celebrities are helping spread the incorrect information. I also don’t find it anywhere near as tacky as the Vanity Fair article’s staged black and white photo of a model weeping while a fat man washes himself at the sink. Vanity Fair is using an exception to prove a case - and also being sensationalist. Village Voice is using unrelated data and pairing it against other unrelated data - also known as comparing apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/162 "2011-07-06T02:27:45Z")
First and foremost…what is all this about Seattle? > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > The VV article noted that about 14 charges of underage prostitution are averaged each year in Seattle. Where? Here’s every reference to Seattle that I could find: > [@](#): > > When the local police data was shared with a leading figure in the struggle against underage prostitution, the research struck her as ringing true. > “The Seattle Police Department totally have a handle on the situation and understand the problem,” says [Melinda Giovengo](http://www.villagevoice.com/related/to/Melinda+Giovengo), executive director of YouthCare, which runs a live-in shelter for underage prostitutes in Seattle. “That seems to be a very accurate count and is reflective of what the data shows.” > [@](#): > > Seattle is one of the few places in the nation with a shelter devoted to underage prostitutes. Despite the obvious need, the city manages the program without federal funding. > “These children, as victims, need more trauma-recovery services,” says Melinda Giovengo, who, as executive director of Seattle’s YouthCare, administers the Bridge Program, a residential center for teen prostitutes. Since Lexi is waving around VV’s “lies” about Seattle instead of addressing anything else I said, I’d like to know. So now I’ve googled and come up with DIFFERENT articles about Seattle and prostitution, including one that’s poppin’ fresh from [TODAY](http://www.seattlecrime.com/2011/07/05/spd-says-seattle-weekly-has-their-facts-wrong-on-juvenile-prostitution): The headline: " **SPD Says Seattle Weekly Has Their Facts Wrong On Juvenile Prostitution"** The content: > [@](#): > > The Seattle Police Department says Village Voice Media and the Seattle Weekly significantly underestimated the number of underage prostitutes recovered by the department in a lengthy story supposedly debunking myths about the scale and scope of juvenile sex trafficking. \*\* It should be noted that in 2010, after the department changed the name of the Vice unit to the Vice/High Risk Victim’s Unit and shifted the focus to treating prostitutes as \*\*victims rather than criminals, \*\*the SPD made \*\*81 juvenile recoveries. \*\*To date in 2011, police say they’ve made 24 recoveries. \* > [@](#): > > America does not lose 100,000 to 300,000 children to prostitution annually, as Kutcher **and sex prohibitionists allege**. That is simply a lie," VVM’s [article says.](http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-06-29/news/real-men-get-their-facts-straight-sex-trafficking-ashton-kutcher-demi-moore/) “Law enforcement records show that there were only 8,263 arrests in these cities for child prostitution during the most recent decade” > According to the Village Voice’s story–which includes data obtained by the Seattle Weekly–Seattle Police arrested 17 juvenile prostitutes in 2007, 14 juveniles in 2008, and 16 in 2009. > However, according to the department’s Vice/High-Risk Victim’s unit, police actually made nearly **twice as many recoveries in that same time period.** > Police say they made 20 “recoveries”–the police term for rescued–in 2007, 30 in 2008, and 40 in 2009. > Village Voice’s story only covers data from 2000-2009, but SPD was only able to provide recovery information for 2007-2011\*. SPD also couldn’t immediately tell me whether their data included juveniles arrested/recovered more than once. > I asked Seattle Weekly Managing Editor Caleb Hannan if he could explain the discrepancy between their numbers and SPD’s. > In an email, Hannan wrote “The numbers we got came from SPD. That’s why we’re just as confused as they are.” > Hannan claims SPD’s numbers include arrests _and_ recoveries of juveniles, while the Weekly only requested data for arrests. However, police tell us they typically arrest juveniles as part of a recovery. > Hannan said he was looking into how the Seattle Weekly obtained data on SPD’s arrests. > If it turns out the Weekly published misleading data on juvenile recoveries, other VVM papers might want to take another look to see if they got their “Real Men Get Their Facts Straight” facts straight. So unless I’m missing something, VV “lied” and supposedly shaved 3 off the 2007 number of 20, 16 from the 2008 number of 30 and 24 off the 2009 number of 40? And I still can’t figure out where these figures appeared at all. I did find [this](http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/11/seattle_ranked_worst_city_in_u.php): > [@](#): > > It’s one thing to be known for things like incessant rain, suicide and atheism. It’s quite another to be known as **the No. 1 city in the country for child prostitution.** Regardless, that’s what the FBI is calling the Seattle area yet again after a nationwide child prostitution crime [sweep](http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/occv_110810) that netted 885 arrests and \*\*freed 69 kids between 12 and 17-years-old–23 of them from the Seattle, Everett and Tacoma areas. > > \*\* Dubbed “Operation Cross Country V,” the effort involved 34 FBI agencies in 40 different cities. It was aided by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and the Innocence Lost National Initiative. > The sweep hit child prostitution hotspots like truck stops, street “tracks” and casinos. > Of the 885 arrests, 99 were suspected pimps. And of those alleged pimps,\*\* nine were from the Seattle area. \*\* Yeah, I’m really not seeing anywhere that there’s these rampant numbers of babywhores running around Seattle (or anywhere else) that the VV is lying about. Anyone care to fill me in? ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/163 "2011-07-06T02:39:31Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > First and foremost…what is all this about Seattle? > > Where? > Here’s every reference to Seattle that I could find: > > Since Lexi is waving around VV’s “lies” about Seattle instead of addressing anything else I said, I’d like to know. > > So now I’ve googled and come up with DIFFERENT articles about Seattle and prostitution, including one that’s poppin’ fresh from [TODAY](http://www.seattlecrime.com/2011/07/05/spd-says-seattle-weekly-has-their-facts-wrong-on-juvenile-prostitution): > > The headline: > " **SPD Says Seattle Weekly Has Their Facts Wrong On Juvenile Prostitution"** > > The content: > > \*\* It should be noted that in 2010, after the department changed the name of the Vice unit to the Vice/High Risk Victim’s Unit and shifted the focus to treating prostitutes as \*\*victims rather than criminals, \*\*the SPD made \*\*81 juvenile recoveries. \*\*To date in 2011, police say they’ve made 24 recoveries. > \* > > So unless I’m missing something, VV “lied” and supposedly shaved 3 off the 2007 number of 20, 16 from the 2008 number of 30 and 24 off the 2009 number of 40? > > And I still can’t figure out where these figures appeared at all. > > I did find [this](http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/11/seattle_ranked_worst_city_in_u.php): > Yeah, I’m really not seeing anywhere that there’s these rampant numbers of babywhores running around Seattle (or anywhere else) that the VV is lying about. > > Anyone care to fill me in? Nobody is saying there are rampant numbers - but VV used incorrect numbers - and thanks for citing it so I don’t have to. You proved that the Village Voice’s numbers were WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/164 "2011-07-06T02:45:02Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Anyone want to find other sources and start a new number, like I attempted before with a starting point using youth runaway numbers and the number of those who consider sex work their primary source of income. > > The starting lowest number for the USA is 16,000 using the data I found. NOW you go find something wrote by a journalist or a researcher, not a mudslinging FOX news style propagandist. Pardon me. This has already been done. \*\*WITH THE TRUE NUMBERS FROM THE REAL STUDY THAT YOUR SOURCE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY LIED ABOUT. \*\* You said: “The starting lowest number for the USA is 16,000 using the data I found.” The accurate statement would be: “The starting lowest number for the USA is 16,000 using the **TOTAL LIES** \*\* I found and I’m now pretending haven’t been shown to be total lies made up out of nowhere and falsely claimed to be gleaned from a 400-plus page study I have never laid eyes on and have still not bothered to look up, even though stoid pointed out that the site I was using was lying.”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/165 "2011-07-06T02:46:24Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Nobody is saying there are rampant numbers - but VV used incorrect numbers - and thanks for citing it so I don’t have to. > > You proved that the Village Voice’s numbers were WRONG. Where did the VV print those numbers at all? Care to link me? And the VV was wrong by, at most, TWENTY. 20. **YOUR SOURCE** was wrong by \*\*MORE THAN A MILLION. **See post #152. you know, the one you are ignoring. \*\* " **** 91 at the lowest end and 620 at the highest!!!** That’s using the VV’s 7%. Being a little more aggressive, I think it can be argued that the number is actually 14%. So double all of it, and you are still at less than 200 on the low end and a little more than 1200 at the high end." ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/166 "2011-07-06T02:46:43Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > BB - I donb’t think the 100,000 to 300,000 is the right number BUT —\> > > Village Voice LIED - they gave Seattle’s numbers as far lower than the Seattle police department said they were. …well, I’m sure you are happy to cite the correct number. You might want to learn how this whole debating thing works on the internet by the way. Your claim: Village Voice lied. Your claim: Seattle’s number is lower than the Police Department said it was. This is the lazy debating style I’m talking about. What numbers does the Village Voice talk about in regards to Seattle? I’ve searched the article: I couldn’t find any numbers about Seattle. I found this: > [@](#): > > “The Seattle Police Department totally have a handle on the situation and understand the problem,” says Melinda Giovengo, executive director of YouthCare, which runs a live-in shelter for underage prostitutes in Seattle. “That seems to be a very accurate count and is reflective of what the data shows.” And I found this: > [@](#): > > Seattle is one of the few places in the nation with a shelter devoted to underage prostitutes. Despite the obvious need, the city manages the program without federal funding. > > “These children, as victims, need more trauma-recovery services,” says Melinda Giovengo, who, as executive director of Seattle’s YouthCare, administers the Bridge Program, a residential center for teen prostitutes. I couldn’t find any numbers that you claim are a lie. If you insist there are lies in the article: show us them. Show us first what the lie is, then show us the truth. On preview: I note that **Stoid** has just gone through the same process as me. So **Lexi** : show us the claim that the Village Voice has made that you can prove is a lie. Don’t make everyone else do the work for you: stop being as lazy as the OP. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/167 "2011-07-06T02:55:40Z")
Do I need to repeat this? I am not anti-sex, I am not a “moral crusader”, in fact I think if police put an effort into eliminating illegal activities such as youth prostitution, and brothels were legal, I would have NO PROBLEM. In fact I’d have a few friends who are still living, and this would be good. I do not know if the 100,000 to 300,000 number is correct - in fact considering evidence and arguments of RATIONAL posters (meaning those who can see through the transparent bad journalism of the VV article and use other arguments and evidence) - I am willing to consider that my own guess based off local numbers in the midst of a pre-olympics buzz, as well as having only lived and visited in cities that were homeless meccas during my street life is probably unreasonable high, and I am looking at other stats. The numbers coming up are NOT ~800 for youth prostitution and although I would never venture to even guess how many over 18 women have a choice - the number is non-zero. As for VV’s lies - Village voice’s numbers are mentioned in this rebuttal: [http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Real-Journalists-Do-Real-Research.html?soid=1101149947677&aid=y0G4d8ZV9Hk](http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Real-Journalists-Do-Real-Research.html?soid=1101149947677&aid=y0G4d8ZV9Hk) interactive map used by VV says what??? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/168 "2011-07-06T02:58:50Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > So then if you have no idea - why is it hard to believe that the numbers may end up on the high end of that range.I have data, albeit anecdotal from my own life, I am venturing a guess that the number will be around 125,000. What evidence other than the VV’s bias, poorly written drivel is there that the number would be low? Without any evidence at all, I am unwilling to accept any numbers. The numbers may end up on the high end, to be sure, but there’s no reason to assume that they will. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/169 "2011-07-06T03:00:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Where did the VV print those numbers at all? Care to link me? > > And the VV was wrong by, at most, TWENTY. 20. > > **YOUR SOURCE** was wrong by \*\*MORE THAN A MILLION. > > **See post #152. you know, the one you are ignoring. > \*\* > " ****91 at the lowest end and 620 at the highest!!!** > > That’s using the VV’s 7%. Being a little more aggressive, I think it can be argued that the number is actually 14%. So double all of it, and you are still at less than 200 on the low end and a little more than 1200 at the high end." Just because the numbers are off by smaller amounts doesn’t make them more correct… Or does it? They were off - and they used arrest numbers in a DIRECT COMPARISON with numbers of AT RISK - this is why I discount the VV’s article. But I do notice, none of you have any other article… HMMMM… ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/170 "2011-07-06T03:03:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Without any evidence at all, I am unwilling to accept any numbers. > > The numbers may end up on the high end, to be sure, but there’s no reason to assume that they will. Please read some posts since you last posted… Also - I have conceded a possibility that my numbers would be wrong due to local issues, and here is my new estimate. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13989708&postcount=145](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13989708&postcount=145) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/171 "2011-07-06T03:08:01Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Do I need to repeat this? > > I am not anti-sex, I am not a “moral crusader”, in fact I think if police put an effort into eliminating illegal activities such as youth prostitution, and brothels were legal, I would have NO PROBLEM. In fact I’d have a few friends who are still living, and this would be good. > > I do not know if the 100,000 to 300,000 number is correct - in fact considering evidence and arguments of RATIONAL posters (meaning those who can see through the transparent bad journalism of the VV article and use other arguments and evidence) - I am willing to consider that my own guess based off local numbers in the midst of a pre-olympics buzz, as well as having only lived and visited in cities that were homeless meccas during my street life is probably unreasonable high, and I am looking at other stats. > > The numbers coming up are NOT ~800 for youth prostitution and although I would never venture to even guess how many over 18 women have a choice - the number is non-zero. > > As for VV’s lies - Village voice’s numbers are mentioned in this rebuttal: > > [Real Journalists Do Real Research](http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Real-Journalists-Do-Real-Research.html?soid=1101149947677&aid=y0G4d8ZV9Hk) > > interactive map used by VV says what??? …From the article: > [@](#): > > First, police departments consider this a victimless crime and often put few resources into addressing it. The cite for this? > [@](#): > > One sergeant on the West Coast told me that his unit referred to picking up girls on the street as a "trash run. This is not evidence. This is, at best, an uncited anecdote. It is no better than the rambling drivel you have been posting. > [@](#): > > Second, youth in the commercial sex industry are frequently taught/trained to lie about their ages. I’m absolutely sure that any youth in the commercial sex industry are lying about their ages: and I’m absolutely sure that they don’t have to be taught or trained to do this. But just posting about it and veryifing this are two different things. There proof of this? > [@](#): > > While police may sometimes suspect that someone is a juvenile, processing an adult is far easier and therefore the path of least resistance. The proof that this is routinely done by police departments all across the United States? Absolutely none. > [@](#): > > Third, many exploited youth are arrested on charges other than prostitution – things like weed possession and petty larceny. Well, yeah. Thats because they’ve been arrested for being in possession of weed or committing petty larceny. The Village Voice is absolutely clear the source of the arrest figures was the SPD. There is a difference between “arrests” and “recovery” they are not the same thing. In your own words **Lexi** : what is so compelling about that rebuttal? IMHO, there looks like there is nothing of substance in there whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/172 "2011-07-06T03:18:33Z")
Wait a moment. Even if we settle this debate about underaged prostitution… the OP was about a subset of all underaged prostitutes, namely those who are trafficked. Are there any real numbers for those? ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/173 "2011-07-06T03:22:35Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Wait a moment. Even if we settle this debate about underaged prostitution… the OP was about a subset of all underaged prostitutes, namely those who are trafficked. Are there any real numbers for those? We defined it early that all underage prostitution is exploitation of youth. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/174 "2011-07-06T03:24:18Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …From the article: > > The cite for this? > > This is not evidence. This is, at best, an uncited anecdote. It is no better than the rambling drivel you have been posting. > > I’m absolutely sure that any youth in the commercial sex industry are lying about their ages: and I’m absolutely sure that they don’t have to be taught or trained to do this. But just posting about it and veryifing this are two different things. There proof of this? > > The proof that this is routinely done by police departments all across the United States? Absolutely none. > > Well, yeah. Thats because they’ve been arrested for being in possession of weed or committing petty larceny. > > The Village Voice is absolutely clear the source of the arrest figures was the SPD. There is a difference between “arrests” and “recovery” they are not the same thing. > > In your own words **Lexi** : what is so compelling about that rebuttal? IMHO, there looks like there is nothing of substance in there whatsoever. And yet 14 != 20… Or does it? HMMM… Magic math! ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/175 "2011-07-06T03:29:40Z")
Okay, Stoid I understand, s/he has a relation who is a sex positive sex worker, and Stoid is not wanting all the industry lumped in with the nasty shit, like the child sex trade. I don’t want it lumped in either, women should have the same rights to have sex with whom they want, and for money as they like, as they should have to the fruit of their womb. As for the Banquet Bear, what is your motivation? My motivation is this - I had friends, many dead now who you are saying didn’t exist because you choose to believe that there are only 827 kids in the sex trade. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/176 "2011-07-06T03:37:41Z")
I didn’t say it wasn’t. But “exploited” doesn’t mean the same thing as “coerced”, much less “trafficked”. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/177 "2011-07-06T03:41:22Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I didn’t say it wasn’t. But “exploited” doesn’t mean the same thing as “coerced”, much less “trafficked”. Ashton’s campaign - the topic of the past few days is about exploitation. The topic here got off topic to exact that -exploitation and the number of underage sex workers. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/178 "2011-07-06T03:51:22Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Okay, Stoid I understand, s/he has a relation who is a sex positive sex worker, and Stoid is not wanting all the industry lumped in with the nasty shit, like the child sex trade. I don’t want it lumped in either, women should have the same rights to have sex with whom they want, and for money as they like, as they should have to the fruit of their womb. > > As for the Banquet Bear, what is your motivation? > > My motivation is this - I had friends, many dead now who you are saying didn’t exist because you choose to believe that there are only 827 kids in the sex trade. Stop saying that. No one claimed that. 827 is the average annual number of arrests for child prostitution in major American cities. My motivation has two parts. 1. To fight ignorance. People shouldn’t think there are 300,000 sex slaves in the United States, because there’s not. 2. To promote legalization of prostitution. As I previously wrote, I don’t like violent pimps. I’d like to put violent pimps out of business. I think legalizing prostitution would help put a lot of violent pimps out of business. Would it get them all? No. But I think it would significantly help. It would also offer people working as prostitutes more protection against robbery and assault. It would also generate tax income. It would also encourage condom usage and more sanitary conditions during prostitution. Encouraging the false mentality that 1/1000 people in the United States is kept as a commercial sex slave will not help this goal. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/179 "2011-07-06T04:07:29Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Stop saying that. No one claimed that. 827 is the average annual number of arrests for child prostitution in major American cities. > > My motivation has two parts. > > 1. To fight ignorance. People shouldn’t think there are 300,000 sex slaves in the United States, because there’s not. > > 2. To promote legalization of prostitution. As I previously wrote, I don’t like violent pimps. I’d like to put violent pimps out of business. I think legalizing prostitution would help put a lot of violent pimps out of business. Would it get them all? No. But I think it would significantly help. It would also offer people working as prostitutes more protection against robbery and assault. It would also generate tax income. It would also encourage condom usage and more sanitary conditions during prostitution. Encouraging the false mentality that 1/1000 people in the United States is kept as a commercial sex slave will not help this goal. I thought you were just a pedant - and I didn’t mind you nor Bricker - you at least don’t cling to the VV’s article as if a secondary source wrote in such an inflammatory manner is the holy grail which proves that OMG - there are no underage prostitutes. Others including the village voice are framing sentences and arguments to make it look like the number of arrests = the number of sex workers. And as I said before the VV is framing it so they use a direct comparison of arrests versus a number that is supposed to be at risk in North America. My points are simple: 1.) there is a non-zero number of real sex-slaves. 2.) the child sex trade exists and although the number may not be 800 - and is less than the 100,000 to 300,000 numbers - it exists. 3.) the VV’s article is full of it and trying to make you think the number of kids in the sex trade is ~800 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520/180 "2011-07-06T04:59:13Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Do I need to repeat this? repeat what? This: > [@](#): > > I am not anti-sex, I am not a “moral crusader”, in fact I think if police put an effort into eliminating illegal activities such as youth prostitution, and brothels were legal, I would have NO PROBLEM. In fact I’d have a few friends who are still living, and this would be good. Did anyone accuse you of this? If so, I didn’t see it. I saw people accusing you of being a lazy debater. I accused you of dodging facts and information that refutes your assertions. I see people busting you on being full of shit. I haven’t noticed anyone accusing you of being a moral crusader or being anti-sex, so I’d say that no, you don’t need to repeatedly defend against accusations that no one’s making. > [@](#): > > fact considering evidence and arguments of RATIONAL posters (meaning those who can see through the transparent bad journalism of the VV article and use other arguments and evidence) - Rational means agree with you? Rational means using MADE UP NUMBERS? Rational means LYING? Ummm. No. That’s not what rational means. At least, not among people who are, in fact, rational. > [@](#): > > The numbers coming up are NOT ~800 for youth prostitution And no one, except YOU, has made the claim that they are. Allow me to introduce you to our old friend, the [Straw Man](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html). You are actually intimately familiar with him, you just may not be aware of his common name. Now I know you don’t acknowledge much of anything that disagrees with or undermines your position, so I’m guessing you don’t follow many links that are offered. So let me give you this quote about how Mr. Straw Man works: > [@](#): > > [FONT=arial][SIZE=3]The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply **ignores** a person’s **actual** position and substitutes a\*\* distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version \*\*of that position. This sort of “reasoning” has the following pattern: [/SIZE][/FONT] > > [ol] > [li][FONT=arial][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial][SIZE=3][/li][li]Person A has position X.[/li][li]Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).[/li][li]Person B attacks position Y.[/li][li]Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.[/SIZE][/FONT][/li][/ol] > [FONT=arial][SIZE=3]This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person. [/SIZE][/FONT] Yes, you and Straw Man are very intimately acquainted indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-idiots-hypocrites-unconcerned-about-americas-sex-trafficking/583520.md?page=10)