# I pit inexperienced Presidents who don't know what they are doing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042 "2013-11-04T07:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/41 "2013-11-04T11:51:45Z")
I am solidly pro-Democrat and I support – to some extent – this Pitting. Another way Obama disappointed with his healthcare plan is [described in this recent article, ostensibly an exaggerated diatribe against Krugman](http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/10/46940.html), but suggesting that it was Obama himself who killed a public health care option. Do keep in mind however that OP’s quote from the WashPost article is selective. Here are some more excerpts: [QUOTE=Washington Post] … on the balmy Sunday evening of March 21, 2010, hours after the bill had been enacted, the president had stood on the Truman Balcony for a champagne toast with his weary staff and put them on notice: They needed to get started on carrying out the law the very next morning. It was not ready even though, for months beginning last spring, the president emphasized the exchange’s central importance during regular staff meetings to monitor progress. No matter which aspects of the sprawling law had been that day’s focus, the official said, **Obama invariably ended the meeting the same way: “All of that is well and good, but if the Web site doesn’t work, nothing else matters.”** … Although the statute provided plenty of money to help states build their own insurance exchanges, it included no money for the development of a federal exchange – and Republicans would block any funding attempts. According to one former administration official, Sebelius simply could not scrounge together enough money to keep a group of people developing the exchanges working directly under her. … From the beginning, the administration worked in a venomous political climate. “You’re basically trying to build a complicated building in a war zone, because the Republicans are lobbing bombs at us,” the White House official said. White House officials contend that the political sensitivities did not influence the substance or pace of the work. But others who were involved say otherwise. According to two former officials, CMS staff members struggled at “multiple meetings” during the spring of 2011 to persuade White House officials for permission to publish diagrams known as “concepts of operation,” which they believed were necessary to show states what a federal exchange would look like. The two officials said the White House was reluctant because the diagrams were complex, and they feared that the Republicans might reprise a tactic from the 1990s of then-Sen. Bob Dole (R-Kan.), who mockingly brandished intricate charts created by a task force led by first lady Hillary Clinton. [/QUOTE] BTW, when Biden confessed that neither he nor Obama had experience, it made me lump Biden in the same category as McCain – they’re both clowns who, whatever skills they might have had once, are well past their “sell by” dates. > [@Becky2844](#): > > Oh, you mean like Eisenhower? :dubious: :smack: :dubious: Eisenhower commanded the Allied invasion of Europe, one of the largest operations the U.S. has ever attempted. To compare his “inexperience” with that of a community organizer shows great confusion. Most U.S. Presidents had Governor or Commanding General on their resumes. Some that didn’t had questionable competence. But it’s not clearcut: One of the greatest of all – Abraham Lincoln – was, like Obama, known primarily as a great orator. > [@adaher](#): > > Missing the point. Governors, generals, VPs, even some cabinet members, have experience in managing large organizations. If they did that well, chance are that they can do well in the Presidency. That Dopers miss this point suggests they’re either blinded by the “(D)” next to Obama’s name … or blinded by the “Rabidly Raving Right-winger” next to **adaher** ’s name. 😃 I have been _extremely_ disappointed in many ways about Obamacare; here are some of my older posts: > [@Pros and cons to universal health care](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pros-and-cons-to-universal-health-care/634194/40): > > … To your list of reasons why U.S. healthcare is expensive you can add GOP malice. Before voting against anything like Obamacare, they pretend they might support it long enough to pack it with poison pills. Win-win for them: they increase the profits of pharmaceutical and insurance companies, while ensuring that taxes or debt increase under “socialized medicine” and Americans will thus hate government even more than before. > [@The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-u-s-taxpayer/657680/12): > > … Obamacare is an abomination foisted on the American people by a coalition of right-wing Republicans(\*) and weak-willed right-of-center Democrats. Liberals who went along are rosy-eyed optimists. > > (\* - Yes I know the right-wingers voted against Obamacare, but only after defecating on and destroying its liberal character. Win-win for them: They get healthcare designed to enrich their health-business patrons, while being able to point fingers of blame when the problems they designed into it become more apparent.) **Please be aware that I’ve not suddenly gone over to the Dark Side.** Whatever the level of Administration competence might be, GOP sabotage is the main source of problems here. And I Pit cretinous hypocrites like **adaher**. He’s not sad or concerned that Americans may be denied health care despite Obama’s promises. To the contrary, problems with Obamacare just make him and his ilk delirious with joy. I’ll bet **adaher** is so ecstatic he defecates in his pants every time he reads about Obamacare problems. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/42 "2013-11-04T11:57:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And I find it amusing that a well sourced article(they had five sources within the administration) isn’t good enough for you. Rather, it’s an “anonymous, online” article, a rather silly way to dismiss it, given that it’s almost certainly in the print version of the Post, and it’s anonymous because nearly ALL inside reports that are negative are going to be anonymous. In the real world, five sources is about as well sourced as this stuff gets. Otherwise, you’re just left with believing whatever the administration says just because it says it. …I’m sure you find it amusing. You appear to be easily amused. You claim that the President is “inexperienced.” The article doesn’t back up your conclusion. Show us your work. > [@](#): > > This doesn’t concern you? Please. I doubt you’d give Straight Dope your private info, I’d be shocked if you actually would trust a site the administration has admitted hasn’t been tested. That doesn’t answer my question. What is it exactly about the fact that the site is still up despite the security features allegedly not being tested leads you to the conclusion that Obama is inexperienced? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/43 "2013-11-04T12:01:19Z")
A website didn’t launch as smoothly as it could have. Worst. President. EVAR. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/44 "2013-11-04T12:10:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And I Pit cretinous hypocrites like **adaher**. He’s not sad or concerned that Americans may be denied health care despite Obama’s promises. To the contrary, problems with Obamacare just make him and his ilk delirious with joy. I’ll bet **adaher** is so ecstatic he defecates in his pants every time he reads about Obamacare problems. Thank you for your fairness, and I plead guilty, in part. Mainly because part of me, my dark side, likes being right, and supporters have been telling me for years that my predictions of major problems with the law were wrong. And also because I feel this President deserves this, given his dishonesty and lack of interest in the nuts and bolts of governing. Look, the guy poisoned the well by accusing his critics of “spreading misinformation”, a sophisticated way of calling us liars. Vindication is needed when someone slanders you that way. However, another part of me did want this to succeed. We need health care reform. While I think the bill is a bad bill, it is actually based on Republican ideas in part, and any alternative Republican plan would embrace the major parts of the law(exchanges, Medicaid expansion, the funding mechanisms(mostly)). If it did well and became popular, Republicans would have no choice but to help make the law better, which would be a good outcome for everyone in the long run. Now we’re stuck with a party of “no” and a party of “can’t”. Neither is likely to be trusted with the health care system in the near future if this whole thing implodes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/45 "2013-11-04T12:11:15Z")
I’ll admit that I was not initially an Obama fan. Then I watched how well he handled opposition from two of the nastiest campaigns I’ve seen in a while - first, from the Clinton campaign (who, let us not forget, first raised the whole Kenya thing) and then from the GOP - and decided that if he can handle this amount of crap this well he’s probably well-prepared for the job. I also consider the decision-making skills involved in the Osama bin Laden episode to have vindicated my view of the man. There were easier and less risky options available (and indeed being advocated by others including Biden and Clinton) and he went with the option that produced the best result but, had it gone wrong, would have heavily damaged his administration. That this was going on while he was standing in front of an audience making quips about Donald Trump’s ability to make tough decisions shows he also has a pair of big clanking ones. I’m certainly not a fan of everything he’s done or not done (and like **septimus** I’ve never been a Biden fan) but taken as a whole I think Obama’s accomplished more against a strong, unified and intractable opposition than any other president could have. If this is the result of inexperience, God only knows what someone with “experience” might have achieved. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/46 "2013-11-04T12:12:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m sure you find it amusing. You appear to be easily amused. > > You claim that the President is “inexperienced.” The article doesn’t back up your conclusion. Show us your work. I did. He did a very dumb thing. Did he do it because he’s dumb? No. That leaves inexperience. > [@](#): > > What is it exactly about the fact that the site is still up despite the security features allegedly not being tested leads you to the conclusion that Obama is inexperienced? What that proves is that not only does the President know nothing about information technology, he doesn’t have anyone on his team that does, or he just doesn’t listen to them. Because the administration has been warned, and chose to disregard those warnings and continues to disregard those warnings. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/47 "2013-11-04T12:16:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’ll admit that I was not initially an Obama fan. Then I watched how well he handled opposition from two of the nastiest campaigns I’ve seen in a while - first, from the Clinton campaign (who, let us not forget, first raised the whole Kenya thing) and then from the GOP - and decided that if he can handle this amount of crap this well he’s probably well-prepared for the job. Well, he does actually stay cool. He never seems to panic or make dumb decisions due to rashness. > [@](#): > > I also consider the decision-making skills involved in the Osama bin Laden episode to have vindicated my view of the man. There were easier and less risky options available (and indeed being advocated by others including Biden and Clinton) and he went with the option that produced the best result but, had it gone wrong, would have heavily damaged his administration. That this was going on while he was standing in front of an audience making quips about Donald Trump’s ability to make tough decisions shows he also has a pair of big clanking ones. One of the reasons he’s been successful in regard to managing the wars is because he’s tended to defer to military expertise. It may sound like I’m damning with faint praise there, but in the end, the Commander in Chief gets the heat if what the military recommends goes tits up. So again, his coolness under pressure paid off. His weaknesses come into play when he’s in charge of selecting the people to implement his policies. that’s where he goes wrong. He not only selects people who fail him, he doesn’t hold them accountable. In that way, he’s been a continuation of GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/48 "2013-11-04T12:20:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What that proves is that not only does the President know nothing about information technology, he doesn’t have anyone on his team that does, or he just doesn’t listen to them. Because the administration has been warned, and chose to disregard those warnings and continues to disregard those warnings. What it proves is that political necessity overrode technical implementation necessity in assigning timetables. They couldn’t start building systems and guidelines until the various political hurdles were leapt over, but they couldn’t delay it on the whole because there are too many stakeholders involved. That’s not incompetence; that’s just _realpolitik_. Sometimes it bites you on the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/49 "2013-11-04T12:22:14Z")
I’m a Democrat who’s not very pleased with the rollout, but I don’t put it down to inexperience. Even businesses that depend on smooth rollouts don’t always pull it off; look at Microsoft, for example. The administration didn’t do a good job on the rollout. That can be laid at the feet of a number of causes: Obama, HHS, Congress, the software developers–but wherever you lay the blame, the key is to learn from it and not make the same mistakes again. And I’m curious, **adaher** , did you spend the years from 1993-2001 proclaiming what a great president Bill Clinton was? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/50 "2013-11-04T12:24:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > His weaknesses come into play when he’s in charge of selecting the people to implement his policies. that’s where he goes wrong. He not only selects people who fail him, he doesn’t hold them accountable. In that way, he’s been a continuation of GWB. Again, ridiculous. Where is the Obama equivalent of “heckuva job, Brownie”? Where is the Harriet Myers? Who has he appointed or supported with not even close to the level of qualification or expertise required? Your examples don’t even come close to that. Your hyping up the real mistakes to the point of craziness. You’ve shifted the goalposts or walked back nearly every claim you’ve made here. I’ve begged you so many times before, with no results, but here I go again: before you post, read it over again and make sure you can actually back up your statements with solid facts. You won’t accept it, but you’re just much, much worse at this than most posters- so much of what you claim is just incorrect. Bad sources, bad inferences, and just plain bad thinking. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/51 "2013-11-04T12:24:37Z")
That’s not realpolitik. That’s simply prioritizing politics over effectiveness. And no, it is not normal. He sabotaged his own law because he considered his reelection to be more important. There was nothing the GOP could have done about his regulation-writing other than to shine a light on it during an election campaign. The President’s desire to delay those regulations was not only incompetence, but cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/52 "2013-11-04T12:25:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I did. He did a very dumb thing. Did he do it because he’s dumb? No. That leaves inexperience. …you forget the (very strong) possibility that he has access to more information than you have: assessed that information on its merits and came to a different conclusion than other people did. Your conclusion that “inexperience” is the only explanation is a dumb conclusion based on fallacious reasoning. Show us how the decisions he made were based on his “inexperience.” > [@](#): > > What that proves is that not only does the President know nothing about information technology, he doesn’t have anyone on his team that does, or he just doesn’t listen to them. Because the administration has been warned, and chose to disregard those warnings and continues to disregard those warnings. Here is the official government portal to all the various websites the United States government runs: > **[A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov](https://www.usa.gov/agency-index)** > > Get contact information for U.S. federal government agencies, departments, corporations, instrumentalities, and government-sponsored enterprises. Find websites, email, phone numbers, addresses, and more. The mere fact that you expect the President of the United States to micro-manage hundreds of different websites certainly says a lot about your level of inexperience to be President of the United States. But it says nothing about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/53 "2013-11-04T12:27:32Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > And I’m curious, **adaher** , did you spend the years from 1993-2001 proclaiming what a great president Bill Clinton was? No. I was mostly neutral on him. I voted for Perot in 1992 and 1996. In hindsight, that was the wrong choice. I didn’t learn to appreciate Bill Clinton until George Bush was about two years into office. I saw incompetence, lies(about policy, not his personal life), and setting back the conservative movement. Bill Clinton did more for conservatives than any Republican President. We got welfare reform, major free trade agreements, a balanced budget, and a Reinventing Government initiative that erased thousands of regulations and reduced the government workforce. GWB was a disaster. And I’m seeing Obama fail for most of the same reasons. With a little bit of Reagan’s disengagement thrown in. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/54 "2013-11-04T12:30:01Z")
So if executive experience is necessary Ads, shouldn’t Bam’s second term be going swimmingly, since he’s smart, speaks well and finally has your much bally hooed “experience” ? Yet for some reason I can’t quite put my finger on, things seem to be going much worse than the first term. It’s almost like his hands are tied or something… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/55 "2013-11-04T12:30:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you forget the (very strong) possibility that he has access to more information than you have: assessed that information on its merits and came to a different conclusion than other people did. Your conclusion that “inexperience” is the only explanation is a dumb conclusion based on fallacious reasoning. > > Show us how the decisions he made were based on his “inexperience.” THe decision was bad. The article also says that his mind was made up early. He did not listen to alternative recommendations. So, given that he made a very bad decision, and did not actually consider alternatives, if you can’t chalk it up to inexperience, what does that leave? > [@](#): > > Here is the official government portal to all the various websites the United States government runs: > > [A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov](http://www.usa.gov/directory/federal/index.shtml) > > The mere fact that you expect the President of the United States to micro-manage hundreds of different websites certainly says a lot about your level of inexperience to be President of the United States. But it says nothing about Obama. This isn’t just any website. He clearly recognized its importance, saying that if it didn’t work, nothing else mattered. He was 100% in charge of selecting the people to implement the project management. On the list of bad decisions, add CMS’s decision to manage the project despite no one in CMS having the relevant experience. Last I checked, the President appointed the head of CMS. And the head of HHS. Neither noticed this awful decision or did anything about it. Neither have been held accountable for this glaring, obvious, failure. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/56 "2013-11-04T12:34:33Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > So if executive experience is necessary Ads, shouldn’t Bam’s second term be going swimmingly, since he’s smart, speaks well and finally has your much bally hooed “experience” ? A successful President needs a record of successful executive experience. > [@](#): > > Yet for some reason I can’t quite put my finger on, things seem to be going much worse than the first term. It’s almost like his hands are tied or something… I don’t think you can say his second term is going worse, at least not in terms of how he’s doing his job. If he is still sucking at his job, it’s from an inability to recognize that he’s the President, not still a Senator. If he continues to see no value in the mundane tasks of government, but is only interested in getting legislation passed, he’s going to fail. He can’t get legislation passed unless it’s stuff the Republicans want. Clinton figured out very quickly how to deal with that problem. Obama is still stumbling. But it’s also possible he’s starting to get it and things will get better soon. Banquet seems to think I believe myself to have some special insight into how to be President, but I don’t. I only know some of what not to do, because these are things that apply to any management job and I have management experience. I know I’d be a crappy president because I’ve never managed more than 30 people. But I do know enough that many of the things Obama is doing would result in unacceptable failures even if he was just managing a Starbucks or something. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/57 "2013-11-04T12:35:05Z")
To be fair, **adaher** seems to have mostly recovered from the coma he was in from January 2001 to January 2009. > [@adaher](#): > > Well, in a sensible world, the Democratic governors who did a good job on their state exchanges would be in the top tier of Presidential candidates for 2016. > > But since the Democratic Party stopped caring about competence, few in the party will even know their names. Steve Beshear (governor of KY) deserves credit for putting together a solid exchange, even in the face of a mostly hostile legislature, but it’s hard to see it as anything but a fluke. The list of things he has fucked up is long and distinguished. For a recent, fairly relevant example: a couple of years ago he oversaw the handing over of our Medicaid program to a trio of managed care organizations. What used to be a typically bureaucratic but otherwise decent program is now a complete dog’s breakfast and an utter nightmare for everyone involved (patients, providers, even the MCOs themselves from what I understand). This changeover has made the ACA implementation look like a Swiss watch. I say this as someone who voted for the man twice, and probably would again if he weren’t term-limited. The only thing worse than Kentucky Democrats is Kentucky Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/58 "2013-11-04T12:35:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I think we have someone who is about to push Clothahump off the _Stupidest Doper_ throne. Clothahump has never made any pretense of where his political allegiance lies. He’s always been quite open about being a conservative. I prefer that to the sneaky conservatives who try to pretend they’re open-minded independents - the ones who pretend they gave serious consideration to every position before once again arriving at exactly wherever the current conservative stand is. For example, I’m willing to bet the OP made no mention about the issue of inexperience when Romney was running against Obama in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/59 "2013-11-04T12:48:34Z")
Two Adaher-started threads near the top of the BBQ pit. He’s become increasingly shrill and desperate over the past month or so. Almost as if we were approaching the one year anniversary of some traumatic event, an event in which all his political instincts were proved disastrously incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/60 "2013-11-04T12:52:40Z")
Ah, but I’m not wrong about everything. BTW, be honest now, who here at the time the President made his famous promise, defended that promise in all its literalness here on SDMB? I’ve seen a lot of posters say Obama was wrong, which is nice, but has anyone yet owned up to being wrong themselves for sticking up for the accuracy of that promise? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042.md?page=4)