# I pit inexperienced Presidents who don't know what they are doing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042 "2013-11-04T07:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/121 "2013-11-05T04:21:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Well, people do give a shit. The workarounds are probably going to include opening emergency enrollment centers that are largely paper-based to actually get people enrolled. That type of thing would work just like if the next flight you take, the wheels fall off the plane on landing and you have to exit down the emergency evacuation chutes. True, everyone eventually gets to their destination without much carnage but that is simply not the way things are supposed to work. It is also very expensive (Outstanding job, unemployment goes down for two months!) > > You can’t ignore this, they fucked up in a way that way that is unacceptable. Many people don’t have the tech knowledge and fall for the propaganda to understand the essential reply of ‘Well, could you have done better?’ is not a real argument. The answer for me is ‘Yes, I most certainly could and have’. Lots of other people could have because I know them and work them. > > I have no idea what this implies for the entire Affordable Healthcare Act although I have have read much of it myself. I am agnostic on it right now. All I know is that they are down 21 - 0 in the first half with no coherent plan from here. However, it is completely clear that the overall management is lacking in ways that would not be tolerated in more competent contexts. Ah, you’re full of shit. We’re talking about the website. Either the website will be working by the end of the month or it will not be. If it works, nobody will care how it works. Unless you benefit from it not working. In which case you’ll probably be bitching about inelegant patches and shit. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/122 "2013-11-05T04:55:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Ah, you’re full of shit. We’re talking about the website. Either the website will be working by the end of the month or it will not be. If it works, nobody will care how it works. Unless you benefit from it not working. In which case you’ll probably be bitching about inelegant patches and shit. You have no fucking idea x1000 over what you even attempting to speak about. It isn’t about a stupid website. Few people get that and that is fine because they don’t try pass off informed opinions about it when they have none but you are for some reason. The website is only the user interface. Any teenager can throw up a web site tonight that can handle tons of traffic but that isn’t important. What matters is the back end of the infrastructure and that is what is failing. I can go into extreme technical details about why that matters but you couldn’t even begin to comprehend any of of it, not because you are stupid (you probably aren’t) but because you have no understanding of how these things work at all. The problem lies with the communication between the companies that need to receive all the relevant data to make this plan work at all and it isn’t happening. Let me give you a simple analogy. You move to a new online bank. Your only interface with them from a consumer level is through a website. Every time you try to move money around, it fails and you cannot even track where your money is at any given time. That is a huge fail for an online bank. It is the same thing for online health insurance transactions. It isn’t a dog and pony show. The requirements and contracts are the same as if you did them person to person and both the financial and personal consequences are potentially much more severe if they are done incorrectly. Please refrain from making flip comments on matters that you have no experience about because it is more important and complicated than you may be able to understand. Ask semi-intelligent questions instead. I may be able to help you understand why this is a real issue and understated rather than overblown. Some of us here have very real experience with these circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/123 "2013-11-05T05:08:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay, let’s talk then. I wonder what you’re angling at with “workarounds” and “not as originally designed.”. Who gives a shit how it works if it works? I’m not going to care if your argument on Nov 30 is about style points. Workarounds in software can enable the desired functionality, but again from an architectural standpoint, they usually compromise the [non-functional quality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_attributes) of the system. Non-functional requirements address attributes such as security, extensibility, and processing efficiency to name just three; almost by definition, a workaround is going to entail some sort of duplication of effort or cost, whether it’s having to make an extra pass through some data or duplicating code that’s already been written. When you duplicate code, you now have to make sure that the duplication is correct, besides still having to ensure that the original module does what it’s supposed to do. That said, I don’t really know why the development of this system has gone so awry, though. I’d have thought there wasn’t going to have to be anything in the new system that was very different from what has already worked for any number of large private companies. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/124 "2013-11-05T05:20:35Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You have no fucking idea x1000 over what you even attempting to speak about. It isn’t about a stupid website. Few people get that and that is fine because they don’t try pass off informed opinions about it when they have none but you are for some reason. > > The website is only the user interface. Any teenager can throw up a web site tonight that can handle tons of traffic but that isn’t important. What matters is the back end of the infrastructure and that is what is failing. From a system development perspective, how did it go so badly wrong? Granted, I’m pretty naive about the details involved, and I’ve never worked on anything like this myself. But I assumed that in building the back end components there would be no need to re-invent the wheel. I do understand that the new system isn’t meant to be exactly like anything that’s gone on before it, but I did think most of the heavy lifting had already been done by private insurance companies that have been running their own customer support systems for many years. Were they not able to leverage the experience and knowledge these companies already had? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/125 "2013-11-05T05:43:08Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > From a system development perspective, how did it go so badly wrong? Granted, I’m pretty naive about the details involved, and I’ve never worked on anything like this myself. But I assumed that in building the back end components there would be no need to re-invent the wheel. I do understand that the new system isn’t meant to be exactly like anything that’s gone on before it, but I did think most of the heavy lifting had already been done by private insurance companies that have been running their own customer support systems for many years. Were they not able to leverage the experience and knowledge these companies already had? Apparently not. It is the back-end details that are hard and the part they got wrong. It is also very hard to fix. It will take months at least if you are starting with inexperienced people. I built systems just like it myself for one of the major health insurance outsourcing firms in the U.S. for 4 years (yes, there is more than one with large company that specializes in it but they have a lot of crossover between talent). It is the same thing and we did it year after year during open enrollment and beyond without any major hitches. For some reason, the contract was awarded to a Canadian company where they don’t even have a U.S. style legacy health insurance system or significant experience dealing with the various insurance carriers. That is major management screw-up #1 out of the gate. It should never have been that expensive and all the people, systems, and institutional knowledge already existed to make it happen if they had simply awarded the contract to the right company(s) in the U.S. There is a whole building full of experts in this type of thing half an hour a way from me with hundreds of more in New Jersey as well as Dallas, Houston and spread around all over in other cities. That is all they do - build interfaces that match up consumers with insurance companies and administer benefits. It is mind-boggling how that was missed. It requires very specialized knowledge and contacts to make it work no matter how smart they thought they were. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/126 "2013-11-05T07:11:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He’s also experienced in being President… only two people in the world exceed him on that count. And look at his impressive list of accomplishments so far!"He has managed to turn a minor recession into a decade long depression, has launched a heathcare initiative that will remove millions of people from their insurance…the llist goes on!☹ ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/127 "2013-11-05T07:17:41Z")
Mid-2008 was a “minor recession”? Are you asserting that the economy has gotten worse since then? Furthermore, did you mean to imply that these “millions of people from their insurance” will not be able to find anything cheaper and/or better through the exchanges (which, IIRC, is part of their purpose)? Boy, sometimes I’m just reminded how fundamentally differently people can look at the world… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/128 "2013-11-05T07:25:43Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > And look at his impressive list of accomplishments so far!"He has managed to turn a minor recession into a decade long depression, has launched a heathcare initiative that will remove millions of people from their insurance…the llist goes on!☹ Sorry, bro. The clownshoes you vote for have slowed the recovery. In fact, it’s because of people like you, that are gullible enough to believe RW nonsense, that many of the problems that face this country are there. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/129 "2013-11-05T11:44:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Obama is experienced in: > -“peace”(he won a Nobel price for “Peace” > -reading speeches (from a teleprompter) > -“community organizing”(whatever that is) > -Law Reviews (he was a law Review expert at Harvard) > Other than that, he’s a pretty run of the mill Cook County politician There is only one example in recent times of a President NOT using a teleprompter, and that was because the guy couldn’t read. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/130 "2013-11-05T11:45:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > And look at his impressive list of accomplishments so far!"He has managed to turn a minor recession into a decade long depression, has launched a heathcare initiative that will remove millions of people from their insurance…the llist goes on!☹ Are you holding your charts upside down, dumbass? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/131 "2013-11-05T11:48:29Z")
Either it will work or it won’t work. It’s a pretty irrefutable position. Shagnasty says it won’t. He is correct that I have no expertise in this area, but whether he’s right or wrong about the website should not take any particular expertise to see. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/132 "2013-11-05T12:19:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are you holding your charts upside down, dumbass? Hey, give him some credit - he admits there was a recession when Bush was in office. That puts him ahead of most of his ilk who think Obama created the recession (when he went into office in the middle of Bush’s first term, apparently). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/133 "2013-11-05T13:20:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > And look at his impressive list of accomplishments so far!"He has managed to turn a **minor recession** into a decade long depression, Wow. Seriously, what kind of crack are you smoking? ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/134 "2013-11-05T15:19:52Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Wow. Seriously, what kind of crack are you smoking? From the hallucinations induced my guess would be the butt crack variety as it appears to involve crap for reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/135 "2013-11-05T15:58:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > … When conservatives ask “Why don’t sentient Americans take our opinions seriously?” I’m reminded of some of the drivel I see even at relatively intelligent message boards. What’s sad is that **ralph124c** probably does have an IQ of 95 or even higher! (Clinical morons can’t post on the Internet at all.) Right-wingers complain that sentient Americans infer racism too easily, but it’s hard to come up with any other explanation for the venomous and nonsensical bullshit repeated about Obama. Here’s a more clearcut example: > [@Obama does his best to degrade a couple of Marines. Next episode: Wipers!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-does-his-best-to-degrade-a-couple-of-marines-next-episode-wipers/658538/1): > > Being tewwibwy afwaid of getting his hair wet, during a press conference President Obama summoned two Marines to hold umbrellas over himself and the Prime Minister of Turkey… > Fuck you, you arrogant, condescending fucker… > This is about one step up from Obama stepping out of the shitter, and Biden clapping and calling for [wipers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ5rbPlsdHw)clad in dress uniform. These turds probably don’t even know they’re racists. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/136 "2013-11-05T16:04:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Right-wingers complain that sentient Americans infer racism too easily, but it’s hard to come up with any other explanation for the venomous and nonsensical bullshit repeated about Obama. There was plenty of venomous and nonsensical bullshit repeated about Bush, and no belief that racism was the reason. Undoubtedly some ire at the President arises from racism, but more arises simply from his being a legislatively successful Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/137 "2013-11-05T16:20:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There was plenty of venomous and nonsensical bullshit repeated about Bush, and no belief that racism was the reason. > > Undoubtedly some ire at the President arises from racism, but more arises simply from his being a legislatively successful Democrat. I think this sums it up nicely. I don’t recall **ralph124c** posting anything to suggest his opposition is race-based; mostly he seems to be of the “Obama’s a Democrat and therefore t3h suxx0r” ilk. The people outside the White House waving Confederate flags and demanding that Obama “put down the Quran”, however, are not really basing their opposition on policy issues. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/138 "2013-11-05T17:17:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There was plenty of venomous and nonsensical bullshit repeated about Bush, and no belief that racism was the reason. > > Undoubtedly some ire at the President arises from racism, but more arises simply from his being a legislatively successful Democrat. Wrong. The gibberish posted about Obama is just too venomous and too stupid to admit other explanation. Did you read the **Sicks Ate** example? Is it possible to imagine such a poster to be both non-racist and have above-average intelligence? **ralph124c** _might_ be a non-racist imbecile, but the fact that his spelling and comma placement is better than imbecilic suggests that he’s a person of average intelligence whom racism (possibly subconscious) reduces to imbecilic cognition on the topic of Obama. ETA: Re Bush: Do you have a cite for _completely untruthful_ complaints about Bush that reached the level of inanity and venom we see for Obama? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/139 "2013-11-05T17:19:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **ralph124c** _might_ be a non-racist imbecile, but the fact that his spelling and comma placement is better than imbecilic suggests that he’s a person of average intelligence whom racism (possibly subconscious) reduces to imbecilic cognition on the topic of Obama. Have you seen the thread titles of a majority of \*\*ralph’s \*\*posts. I wouldn’t be so quick to pat him on the back for being good at spelling and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042/140 "2013-11-05T17:26:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Or, we could elect a governor, someone who actually has experience running a bureaucracy. You mean like Cowboy Numbnuts? That worked out great. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-inexperienced-presidents-who-dont-know-what-they-are-doing/673042.md?page=8)