# I pit Italian Mafia-bastard prosecutors (Amanda Knox-related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537 "2011-02-16T03:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/21 "2011-02-16T12:50:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Regardless of all the above, would they have been prosecuted for such actions in the US or UK? Of course not. It’s intimidation by prosecution. I’m sure there’s a point in here just waiting to get out, but I’m flummoxed trying to understand what it is. Different countries have different laws. Who knew? I dare say there’s laws that the UK and US have which make no sense to an Italian—in fact, I know for a fact that there are—but, what of it? Unless you’re making the unlikely assumption that the US and UK legal system is the very definition of justice, what precisely is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/22 "2011-02-16T12:50:32Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > They knew exactly what they were doing. They accused the Italians, in a newspaper with a large international audience, of failing to provide a translator, not providing their daughter with food or water, and claimed their daughter had been virtually beaten into a confession by a police officer hitting her with a pair of handcuffs. The whole charade was a method of using the media circus surrounding the trial to throw doubt on the reliability and impartiality of the Italian legal system. Is it really any wonder that the Italian legal system itself would come down hard on them? Yeah, because we can always trust the cops to admit when they’ve been mistreating someone. Especially a foreigner from a currently-politically-unpopular country. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/23 "2011-02-16T12:56:40Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Yeah, because we can always trust the cops to admit when they’ve been mistreating someone. Especially a foreigner from a currently-politically-unpopular country. :rolleyes: And the USA is whiter than white? Even if you choose to leave aside torture and rendition and consider them military matters, you might want to consider the case against [Gary McKinnon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/24 "2011-02-16T12:59:32Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Especially a foreigner from a currently-politically-unpopular country. Why do you think that the US is currently-politically-unpopular in Italy (it isn’t, at least not so much as Italians are likely to hunt around for the nearest American they can pin a murder on)? Further, have you any evidence that this prosecution is politically motivated? You know if an Italian had started running their mouths off about how the police had beaten a suspect, they’d be in the same situation, right? ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/25 "2011-02-16T13:11:46Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > She (and the other two) are nasty pieces of work Cite? **Fuji** , I suspect you’re talking out of your ass again. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/26 "2011-02-16T13:12:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And the USA is whiter than white? Even if you choose to leave aside torture and rendition and consider them military matters, you might want to consider the case against [Gary McKinnon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon) Well, that makes everything okay, then. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/27 "2011-02-16T13:14:15Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > It’s not like Italy is a third world country True. > [@](#): > > …with a sham of a legal system A little more difficult to be sure about, given the recent Italian record for prosecuting sensational murder cases. My confidence in the Italian system was not greatly enhanced by prosecutors’ performance in the Monster of Florence serial murder investigation (where numerous innocent people were put on trial and jailed, and at least two journalists were brought up on trumped-up charges, apparently for embarassing the authorities with their factual revelations). And some of the same people were involved in prosecuting the Knox case. Hitting the parents with libel charges at this point (whatever the truth of the matter) has an air of revenge and/or silencing nagging criticism. Not another golden moment for prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/28 "2011-02-16T13:15:28Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I’m sure there’s a point in here just waiting to get out, but I’m flummoxed trying to understand what it is. Different countries have different laws. Who knew? I dare say there’s laws that the UK and US have which make no sense to an Italian—in fact, I know for a fact that there are—but, what of it? Unless you’re making the unlikely assumption that the US and UK legal system is the very definition of justice, what precisely is your point? One may criticize the legal system of another country without claiming that one’s own legal system is perfect. Unless you’re in Italy of course, where criticizing the government is against the law. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/29 "2011-02-16T13:18:22Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > You know if an Italian had started running their mouths off about how the police had beaten a suspect, they’d be in the same situation, right? Any country that typically jails people for “mouthing off” is a country that needs remedial education in the concept of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/30 "2011-02-16T13:19:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Luckily for them, they live in a free country and can say what they want. Presumably this is America? Aside from the fact that they presumably have to visit Italy, in order to see their daughter, at some point in the future, doesn’t Colorado have a criminal [libel statute](http://www.osce.org/fom/41958) that makes it an offence to create a false statement about “agricultural products”? A further four American states class insulting a teacher as criminally libelous. Insulting a teacher vs. calling into question the impartiality of a country’s legal system and accusing police officers of beating a suspect. _You decide!_ ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/31 "2011-02-16T13:31:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Unless you’re in Italy of course, where criticizing the government is against the law. They didn’t “criticize”. Italians criticize their government everyday without being hauled off in front of a judge. Berlusconi is a national joke, as is the ineffectiveness of the current administration. However, Knox’s parents made specific claims. Specifically, they claimed that a police officer had beaten their daughter, and she had been denied access to a translator and had not been fed properly, in effect hamstringing her defence. Do you understand the difference between a specific claim and a criticism of the government? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/32 "2011-02-16T13:39:13Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And the USA is whiter than white? Even if you choose to leave aside torture and rendition and consider them military matters, you might want to consider the case against [Gary McKinnon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon) Ah, yes. The poor falsely accused hacker. The one [who admitted](http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2007/762.html): > [@](#): > > …leaving a note on one Army computer that read: > > ``` > "US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels … " > > ``` Why, the lad’s innocent as a newborn mouse! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/33 "2011-02-16T13:40:37Z")
Yeah, I have no idea what relevance that has here. The guy’s clearly guilty, and the efforts to paint him as some sort of victim are ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/34 "2011-02-16T13:48:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Any country that typically jails people for “mouthing off” is a country that needs remedial education in the concept of freedom. Why? Criminal libel exists in the US as well as Italy. For instance, [Colorado](http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/04/nation/na-craigslist-libel4) is just one state with a criminal libel statute on the books. For instance, a recent case saw a man receive 23 years in jail from a [Colorado court](http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/2006_08_28_criminal_web_libeler_sentenced.htm) for libeling over the Internet, as well as a teen who spent several days in a juvenile detention centre after labelling some girls at his school “sluts”. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/35 "2011-02-16T13:59:24Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > For instance, a recent case saw a man receive 23 years in jail from a [Colorado court](http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/2006_08_28_criminal_web_libeler_sentenced.htm) for libeling over the Internet You need to do a bit more [research.](http://www.rexxfield.com/blog/2009/05/prison-for-internet-libel-criminal-in-colorado/) > [@](#): > > Davis Temple Stephenson, 41, was convicted in 2006 of 26 felonies, including criminal libel, criminal impersonation, stalking and forgery, and sentenced to 23 years in prison. > > Before that conviction, however, he was found guilty of seven bail violations for using a computer to create a résumé, answer e-mail, write a letter to the editor and get legal information. Frankly there’s a difference between saying the Police did a bad thing to my kid, and targeting people for harassment. People in the US don’t get arrested for claiming the police did something bad, unless they start filing false charges, and THAT is what they get in trouble for. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/36 "2011-02-16T13:59:28Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Yeah, I have no idea what relevance that has here. The guy’s clearly guilty, and the efforts to paint him as some sort of victim are ridiculous. No one says he is innocent, merely that the likely punishment meted out to him is probably going to be disproportionate and that his mental condition will not be taken into consideration. We already know that the US is a little sketchy on the ethics of murdering mentally ill people in the name of “justice”. A lot of people in the UK see the American legal system as a basket case, the fact that they still have the death penalty is a black spot difficult to erase. In the US, the libel case against the Knox’s wouldn’t happen, In Italy it might. In Italy, the state would not kill someone in retribution, in the US they would. In the UK a hacking case wouldn’t attract a long custodial sentence, in the US it would. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/37 "2011-02-16T14:26:13Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > People in the US don’t get arrested for claiming the police did something bad, unless they start filing false charges, and THAT is what they get in trouble for. They do get arrested if they [film a cop doing bad things](http://www.cracked.com/article_18620_6-completely-legal-ways-cops-can-screw-you_p2.html) to prove that the cop did bad things, however. Or they get shot in the middle of the night when the police breaks into their house in a SWAT raid… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/38 "2011-02-16T14:39:13Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > They do get arrested if they [film a cop doing bad things](http://www.cracked.com/article_18620_6-completely-legal-ways-cops-can-screw-you_p2.html) to prove that the cop did bad things, however. > > Or they get shot in the middle of the night when the police breaks into their house in a SWAT raid… Call me when someone gets arrested and thrown in jail for giving an interview to the press where they claim the police are crooked. I’d be happy to denouce that prosecution as well, if you can find one. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/39 "2011-02-16T14:50:49Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Sorry, but what exactly is wrong with this indictment? Do you have any reason to assume that it was improper under Italian law? The parents believe there was police misconduct. They choose to speak publicly about it. That’s when their troubles started. It’s pretty hard for individuals who enjoy things like free speech and the right to address grievance publicly to understand a country that prohibits the same. Some things should be so fundamental that their absence screams “third world”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537/40 "2011-02-16T15:01:24Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I’m sure there’s a point in here just waiting to get out, but I’m flummoxed trying to understand what it is. Let’s try to explain it slowly, then, starting with your next statement. > [@](#): > > Different countries have different laws. Yes. Some types of countries, such United States, have laws where bringing legal charges against people for criticizing the workings of the government is Simply Not Done. Some countries, such as Iran, have laws where bringing legal charges against people for criticizing the workings of the government is routinely done. One determines which type a given country falls into by observing its behavior in this regard. Simple, isn’t it? > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > You know if an Italian had started running their mouths off about how the police had beaten a suspect, they’d be in the same situation, right? If you dig yourself any deeper, pick up some actual-China Chinese food for me, willya? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-italian-mafia-bastard-prosecutors-amanda-knox-related/571537.md?page=3)