# I pit ITR Champion and his 'concerns'...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 17, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063 "2014-01-17T15:42:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/61 "2014-02-11T17:26:18Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#):
>
> Yeah, no. This is sort of like arguing that once I’ve learned arithmetic, someday I will think that one plus one equals 15. The odds are approximately the same that you will one day become a flat-earther who believes we’re at the center of the universe and that we’re all made of the 4 classic elements.
>
> One doesn’t learn how an internal combustion engine works and then years later believe it is powered by invisible gremlins. Some advances in thought simply cannot be undone.
By your own criteria, the subject of this thread refutes you, having been an enlightened liberal like yourself as a younger person, and then gone over to the Dark Side as he matured.
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> No, this discussion is about how big of a tool ITR Champion is.
Someone documented the fact that ITR Champion has changed his ideology over time, so this became part of it.
Whether he is a tool now or was a tool then depends on your perspective.
---
### Author:  [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/62 "2014-02-11T17:31:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> By your own criteria, the subject of this thread refutes you, having been an enlightened liberal like yourself as a younger person, and then gone over to the Dark Side as he matured.
Ah ah ah, once again I say nay nay.
A liberal can become a conservative and vice-versa. Neither has anything to do with things like racism, homophobia, and other deficiencies of the human mind.
Unless you’re implying all conservatives are racist or homophobic, you’ve lost the point.
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/63 "2014-02-11T17:35:32Z")
I’m not implying that.
But that’s what Karrius was doing, in the post you responded to.
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/64 "2014-02-11T18:02:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Whether he is a tool now or was a tool then depends on your perspective.
Not really. Do you think he’s getting shit on this message board because he’s conservative? I’ve been coming here for years and I don’t think a month has gone by without a **Der Trihs** Pitting.
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### Author:  [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/65 "2014-02-11T18:07:21Z")
> [@Karrius](#):
>
> My intent was to poke fun at the idea that as people get older and wiser they get more conservative. You could very well describe it as “as people get older and more bigoted, they get more conservative”.
Ah, geez, I think I just broke the Cardinal Rule of the Dope, didn’t I? I not only apologize, I am sorry.
I will read all posts in context before going nuclear on someone.
I will read all posts in context before going nuclear on someone.
I will read …
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### Author:  [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/66 "2014-02-11T18:08:54Z")
@ Fotheringay-Phipps
> [@Karrius](#):
>
> Agreed. **People don’t have liberal, open grandparents** - they have racist, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, nasty grandparents who they’re embarrassed to be around and have to be careful with the kids near. ITR is just like that.
Okay, on the same page as you now.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/67 "2014-02-12T03:17:09Z")
[Best response](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17095664&postcount=52) in the latest thread:
> [@Why haven't progressive ideas in California and elsewhere produced better results?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-progressive-ideas-in-california-and-elsewhere-produced-better-results/680779/52):
>
> I’ve been away so let me sum up this thread since I last posted.
>
> ITR Champion: Progressive states are bad because of reasons that I’ve cherrypicked out of all the data. This is because of policies pursued by Democrats even in states when Republicans have been in power. This has nothing to do with structural issues that are dependent on those states’ differences from other states. Any good things about those states can be handwaved away because they don’t support my argument. The advantages of those states over other states with less progressive policies is also to be ignored.
>
> Everybody Else: The flaws in your argument are obvious.
>
> ITR Champion: In rebuttal, let me say that Progressive states are bad because of reasons that I’ve cherrypicked out of all the data. This is because of policies pursued by Democrats even in states when Republicans have been in power. This has nothing to do with structural issues that are dependent on those states’ differences from other states. Any good things about those states can be handwaved away because they don’t support my argument. The advantages of those states over other states with less progressive policies is also to be ignored.
>
> I’ll think I’ll leave again.
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### Author:  [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/68 "2014-02-17T02:22:53Z")
So, did Dave Barry really belong in the list above? I don’t remember reading anything hugely political from him at all…?
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/69 "2014-04-01T00:17:38Z")
[More of the same.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719743)
Can we, pretty please with sugar on top, actually propose a _viable_ alternative, vs. just throwing out all of the things viewed as wrong with Liberal Idea X, and thus assume that the original status quo is the ideal?
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/70 "2014-04-01T16:51:03Z")
No.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/71 "2014-04-01T17:28:08Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> [More of the same.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719743)
>
> Can we, pretty please with sugar on top, actually propose a _viable_ alternative, vs. just throwing out all of the things viewed as wrong with Liberal Idea X, and thus assume that the original status quo is the ideal?
**ITR,** [it’s about time](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/01/the_rights_day_after_freakout_conservatives_fail_to_grapple_with_new_obamacare_reality/) [for your side to give up](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/01/its_all_over_obamacare_haters_why_theyve_officially_lost_the_battle/) on this one.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/72 "2014-04-01T17:38:41Z")
Two things i’ve noticed about **ITR** ; one, he’s really in love with the idea that a single person can by themselves become knowledgeable enough about any subject to be able to analyze it. Sort of like a super-generalist.
Number two is that, to his mind, it seems as though if you disagree with him, it’s not enough that you are incorrect; such a person is lying, mistaken, an idiot, a cruel puppet-master of others and under the thumb of others all at the same time - basically, if you’re wrong, you’re a bad person. And the opposite; if you agree with him, such a person is not just correct, but honest and noble. It leads to things like the name game; scan a post in which **ITR** namechecks someone; do they get their full title and qualifications, perhaps their place of work or associated organisations if relevant? Read the post in full, and i’ll bet you he agrees with them. Is it just their surname? Then they’re no friend of **ITR** ’s opinions.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/73 "2014-04-01T18:47:27Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#):
>
> Two things i’ve noticed about **ITR** ; one, he’s really in love with the idea that a single person can by themselves become knowledgeable enough about any subject to be able to analyze it. Sort of like a super-generalist.
Don’t **all** of us Dopers share that delusion?
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/74 "2014-04-01T19:01:44Z")
That was fairly badly stated on my part. I mean that he seems to think that the concept of having some kind of specialist knowledge incomprehensible to the layman is a myth. If you’re a reasonable person, you can understand any data on that basis alone.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/75 "2014-04-01T19:25:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#):
>
> That was fairly badly stated on my part. I mean that he seems to think that the concept of having some kind of specialist knowledge incomprehensible to the layman is a myth. If you’re a reasonable person, you can understand any data on that basis alone.
He’s hardly unique in this. Check out the threads on global warming.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/76 "2014-04-01T20:30:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#):
>
> He’s hardly unique in this. Check out the threads on global warming.
I try very hard not to. But i’ll take your word for it.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/77 "2014-09-24T00:56:57Z")
[At it again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735250). Most pointless OP of the month?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/78 "2014-09-24T01:20:13Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> [At it again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735250). Most pointless OP of the month?
Stupid thread, but not even in the top 10 for most pointless.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/79 "2014-09-24T02:23:33Z")
I don’t know, you guys. If **ITR Champion** were a concern troll, would be be SOOOOOO concerned?
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-itr-champion-and-his-concerns/679063/80 "2014-09-24T03:08:56Z")
Annoying. He had his phase of stupid anti-atheist GD threads a few years ago, but then he got over it and was just a silly random contributor to various threads. Looks like he’s gotten back up on the stupid horse, though this time as an anti-liberal.
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