# I Pit Lack of Finacial Aid for my Kid's College Education! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068 "2011-06-02T07:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/221 "2011-06-03T20:07:47Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > It’s the utter lack of helpfulness, seasoned by smug. > > Your comments about reducing expectations and going to a community college in order to save money might be unpalatable to the OP, but are generally good advice. Bricker’s advice is essentially “You should be one of the 1/2-1% of students who qualify as a finalist for the National Merit Scholarship and your troubles will be over”. He has also completely ignored the evidence presented in this thread that college costs have outstripped inflation and somewhat dishonestly, in my opinion, bolstered his argument with outdated costs from his alma mater, ignoring the fact that costs have jumped ~20% in the past two years. You should learn to read. It will really brighten up the moronic look that must darken your countenance. My initial comments on this matter were not to the OP, but to the dim bulb who strolled by to sympathize, suggesting that success was impossible except for the rich. I was not rich, and I did it, and this seems to infuriate everyone with a script in thier mind about how oppressive our country is. And what the fuck are you on about costs jumping 20%? That was comparing apples and oranges, costs from two different publications that you have no way of knowing measured the same things. Community college was too hard for you, would be my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/222 "2011-06-03T20:10:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Someone who posts in the Pit about how fucked up the world is because Little Johnny Snowflake, with a mediocre GPA and test scores, might have to - gasp - go to community college for two years, gets no sympathy from me. And…wait for it…someone who jumps into said Pit thread to brag about how smart and self-reliant they are while dumping on those who are having difficulty gets mocked by me. It’s all a beautiful circle, isn’t it? [QUOTE=Bricker] You’re a useless freaking idiot. Go back to your useless board with its four remaining members and pretend to be someone important, you shitstain. [/QUOTE] But then how would I keep abreast of your high school test scores and part time college jobs? 😕 No, it’s better if I keep posting in both places. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/223 "2011-06-03T20:12:03Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > d) not willing to do what he easily made happen about 30 years ago in a totally different circumstance. I’m sorry, but when I wrote of my experience working through college, what part of my description made you believe “easy” was what I was describing? Was it the waking up at 4:00 AM, or the stinking of used cooking grease? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/224 "2011-06-03T20:13:49Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > And…wait for it…someone who jumps into said Pit thread to brag about how smart and self-reliant they are while dumping on those who are having difficulty gets mocked by me. It’s all a beautiful circle, isn’t it? My intent wasn’t to brag. My intent was to rebut the claim that only the rich can succeed. To do that, it was necessary to explain how I succeeded. > [@](#): > > But then how would I keep abreast of your high school test scores and part time college jobs? 😕 Well, that is a good point. I suppose you could just follow me on Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/225 "2011-06-03T20:17:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Must it be all or nothing? Most of us have the wisdom to tell the difference between things we can and cannot reasonably control. Indeed? So it’s luck that Joe does well on his SATs, because of his genetics and heritage and upbringing. But his brother Steve, who has the same parents and presumably the same upbringing, doesn’t do well. How should we analyze this? What weight should we give to Steve’s amazing beer bong ability, honed by studious party attendance, vs Joe’s nerd reputation because he stays home and studies? At what point do we ascribe any human agency to the choices each brother made? Tell me how the rules work, in your view. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/226 "2011-06-03T20:20:18Z")
You know what? This is a topic that makes me lose my mind. My reaction is way over the top. I apologize. I can’t discuss this subject rationally. I ate a lot of shit in my high school and college days and feel… well, like any attempt to diminish that large amount of shit I ate is a personal attack. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/227 "2011-06-03T20:22:31Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > My son scored in the high 1800s on his SAT, has a really good GPA, etc, but there isn’t much out there if you’re white and middle class. Many of his friends had lower GPAs and lower SAT scores, but they received substantially more help. It wasn’t need based, it was based on ethnicity or color. I feel like a shit saying that, but it’s true. Did it ever occur to you that ‘middle class’ and ‘white’ already gave him a leg-up? Or that people got scholarships based on something other than their GPA and SAT? Maybe 55 per cent of minorities (black & Hispanic) graduate high school, compared with nearly 80 per cent of white kids. Bitch, plz. Scholarships open to everyone don’t grant based on color or ethnicity. If they got ‘more cash’, it was because they applied to a specific one or because they had something else going for them. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/228 "2011-06-03T20:24:14Z")
How wonderful for your school district, **RS.** :rolleyes: Ugh, I don’t do PTA; never have. I work for a fucking living. If you really think I’m saying the middle class is being oppressed, you need to learn to read. You must not have been in the top 25% of your school. 😛 That’s his cumulative GPA. It was higher, but he dropped the ball just a little in one class last year. He knows he could have done better, but got cocky. Hard lesson, but he learned. Sigh, I’m not saying my son is some kind of superstar. He’s done well enough. No, he doesn’t carry a 4.0 GPA, he didn’t score a perfect 2400, and wasn’t all rah-rah in school. By the same token, he’s not just a slouch either. He worked very hard for the most part and kicks himself every time he doesn’t do as well as he thinks he should. By the by, he’d be mortified if he read this. He is extremely conservative in his fiscal and political views. He knows he’s going to be paying for school for a long while, expects to work hard, and doesn’t have an issue with it. He’s a little shocked at what interest does to a loan, but he willingly signed it. I don’t know when expressing just a little empathy became verboten in here. I know it ain’t all kitty cats and unicorns here, but Christ on a cracker… ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/229 "2011-06-03T20:24:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry, but when I wrote of my experience working through college, what part of my description made you believe “easy” was what I was describing? Was it the waking up at 4:00 AM, or the stinking of used cooking grease? It was probably the undertone of “I did it, and your lazy kid can do it too.” You’re not the only one who worked through college, but the cost of tuition and the cost of living is substantially higher and the minimum wage has not exactly kept pace. So maybe, just maybe, it would be actually more difficult for a person to do what you did 30 years ago, and what I did 4 years ago, if they were not able to receive financial aid to help defray the costs. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/230 "2011-06-03T20:27:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You should learn to read. It will really brighten up the moronic look that must darken your countenance. > > My initial comments on this matter were not to the OP, but to the dim bulb who strolled by to sympathize, suggesting that success was impossible except for the rich. > > I was not rich, and I did it, and this seems to infuriate everyone with a script in thier mind about how oppressive our country is. No, it just annoys everyone that you’re insisting that it’s as possible for the non-rich to afford college now as it was in 1980. > [@](#): > > And what the fuck are you on about costs jumping 20%? That was comparing apples and oranges, costs from two different publications that you have no way of knowing measured the same things. Guess you never read post 168. [Va Tech costs have jumped 20% since you posted your 2 year old tuition and fees statement.](http://articles.wdbj7.com/2011-04-21/visitors-executive-committee_29461557) > [@](#): > > Community college was too hard for you, would be my guess. Doctorate in computer science. Why should you start being right at this late point in the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/231 "2011-06-03T20:28:36Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > How wonderful for your school district, **RS.** :rolleyes: FYI, I’m pretty sure **ReticulatingSplines** (excellent username, btw) was referring to the practice where some schools use a five point scale for AP and honors classes (A=5.0, B=4.0, C=3.0, etc.) If your son has a 3.75 on a 4.0 scale, then what he said doesn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/232 "2011-06-03T20:30:42Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that ‘middle class’ and ‘white’ already gave him a leg-up? Or that people got scholarships based on something other than their GPA and SAT? Maybe 55 per cent of minorities (black & Hispanic) graduate high school, compared with nearly 80 per cent of white kids. Bitch, plz. Scholarships open to everyone don’t grant based on color or ethnicity. If they got ‘more cash’, it was because they applied to a specific one or because they had something else going for them. > > Typical. Bitch, plz. Did you read my follow up post? About how they didn’t have extras going for them. My son applied for plenty of stuff; just didn’t get it. Maybe next year. It’s just the way the ball rolled this year. This school district isn’t a disadvantaged one, by the way. Many of these people are much better off financially than us. I’m glad for them. Maybe we’ll be there someday too. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/233 "2011-06-03T20:33:58Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > It’s probably because what he is claiming is that everybody who is not getting scholarships, or a full ride, or paying their own way happily through college is either a) not as smart as they think, b) not smart at all, c) not willing to work at all and wants everything handed to them, or d) not willing to do what he easily made happen about 30 years ago in a totally different circumstance. It’s like when people compare two totally different things, and declare “If these circumstances were completely different, why, they’d be exactly the same!”. Well no shit, but the situation isn’t the same as it was back then. > > **Bricker** has demonstrated that the top 1% will probably find a way to get their education paid for, and anyone who isn’t the top 1% is fooling themselves. He proudly points at National Merit Scholarships as though it’s the answer for everyone, and somehow by demonstrating that scholarships _still exist_, that everyone has access to them. When I was in high school, I had a 3.9 GPA, a 30 ACT score, worked 25-30 hours a week, volunteered, played varsity level sports, went to state on the debate team, and was prom royalty. If there was a more well-rounded student, I want to meet her. I got exactly $250 in scholarships and financial aid, and I promise my parents were not rolling in the cash. These were merit-based scholarships I applied for, over $50,000 worth, and I received **one** for $250. This is not to sneak brag at all, this is to demonstrate that you can be a really kick ass student on paper and do very well in school and be well rounded and still not get shit in terms of financial aid to pay for school. So what should I have done differently? Been smarter? Scored better? Worked harder? > > If I had not had Florida Prepaid Tuition, I would not have been able to afford school. Thanks to my parents, who were the ones to invest in that in the 80’s. But not all states have a locked-in tuition option, and not all parents can invest in their kid’s education from day 1. When I went to school, I had to work 45 hours a week while taking a full load of classes to support myself, just for my living expenses alone. > > The school I graduated from for my BA, a public school in FL, charges $170 per _credit hour_. So a 15 credit load would cost $2550 a semester (not including fees) and the entire degree (of 120 credits) will set you back over $21k (also not including fees). That is not chump change to a lot of people, and it’s been demonstrated that tuition inflation has comprised more and more hours of work based on a minimum-wage earning level. > > Nobody is arguing that it is easy, trust me. But the people who aren’t able to outright pay for school end up amassing a huge amount of debt to get there, which puts them in a position of further disparity as compared to the people who had the money to pay for school and not go into debt to get there. So, the top 1% is set, we’ve already determined that. The 4.0 kids, the 2400 SAT, the 36 ACT, the kids who never had to work during high school and got to spend all their time volunteering and taking AP classes to spiff up their CV, they’re golden. > > Everybody else gets more or less screwed by a system that benefits the top 1% performers, and the rich people. Unless you go to a cheap school. (Is CSU seriously that cheap for in-state tuition? $312 a semester? That is not even in the same ballpark as most schools, so perhaps I’ll take those stories with a large grain of salt now) I went to community college the old-fashioned way. 😛 Then I transferred and I paid $6,500 give or take a _semester_. I graduated with $11,500 in debt and then I was a dumbass and went to grad school for teaching and incurred another $40k. 😕 Luckily I’ll have a couple of grants/loan forgiveness option to knock some of it off, but I made my own mistake. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/234 "2011-06-03T20:36:44Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > Bitch, plz. Did you read my follow up post? **About how they didn’t have extras going for them**. My son applied for plenty of stuff; just didn’t get it. Maybe next year. It’s just the way the ball rolled this year. > > This school district isn’t a disadvantaged one, by the way. Many of these people are much better off financially than us. I’m glad for them. Maybe we’ll be there someday too. How do you know? My parents were divorced and my dad is loaded. $13m in assets right now kind of loaded, which is half of what he had when I graduated. I’m sure people thought I was daddy’s princes but that wasn’t the case. I lived with my mom in a house that most of the time had heat and a box of mac & cheese, but usually we made it with water, no butter. And even if the kids ‘had nothing else going for them’, you have no idea how many minority students really do not have shit going for them. If that means some otherwise ‘undeserving’ kids get a leg-up, oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/235 "2011-06-03T20:50:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My reaction is way over the top. I apologize. I can’t discuss this subject rationally. I ate a lot of shit in my high school and college days and feel… well, like any attempt to diminish that large amount of shit I ate is a personal attack. I’m sorry. How so? Did you get shit on as a nerd kid or a poor kid? Or both? Both does make things interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/236 "2011-06-03T20:52:37Z")
Does anyone have any data on the rising cost of college versus the increase in grants and loans in the past? I read somewhere a few years ago that, generally, when government-funded student aid gets increased, the colleges just slide their tuition and expenses up to keep pace, knowing that it will get paid by the aid increases. It certainly makes sense to me, and I would not be at all surprised if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/237 "2011-06-03T21:03:41Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > How wonderful for your school district, **RS.** :rolleyes: > > Ugh, I don’t do PTA; never have. I work for a fucking living. If you really think I’m saying the middle class is being oppressed, you need to learn to read. You must not have been in the top 25% of your school. 😛 > > That’s his cumulative GPA. It was higher, but he dropped the ball just a little in one class last year. He knows he could have done better, but got cocky. Hard lesson, but he learned. > > Sigh, I’m not saying my son is some kind of superstar. He’s done well enough. No, he doesn’t carry a 4.0 GPA, he didn’t score a perfect 2400, and wasn’t all rah-rah in school. By the same token, he’s not just a slouch either. He worked very hard for the most part and kicks himself every time he doesn’t do as well as he thinks he should. > > By the by, he’d be mortified if he read this. He is extremely conservative in his fiscal and political views. He knows he’s going to be paying for school for a long while, expects to work hard, and doesn’t have an issue with it. He’s a little shocked at what interest does to a loan, but he willingly signed it. > > I don’t know when expressing just a little empathy became verboten in here. I know it ain’t all kitty cats and unicorns here, but Christ on a cracker… I’ll give you some empathy. Its TOUGH. A middle class kid that is not exceptional (neither of my kids will be exceptional - my son is a A/B student, my daughter gifted, but not exceptionally so) might get a few thousand over four years in terms of “free” money - but the bulk of the money is going to be loans. A four year college degree including room and board from a four year school is going to be $75,000- $100,000 - pretty much minimum (you can go to North Dakota, out of state even, for a mere $80,000 for for years - a mere $60k in state - its one of the cheapest options, but it IS North Dakota). Out of state or private - its $200k. If you live in a state where community colleges aren’t good or a state where in state tuition is high or a state where you’d better be an exceptional kid even to get into a decent state school because there just isn’t sufficient places for all the kids who want to go - your options become even pricier or less attractive. Middle class people who do this with unexceptional kids start putting money aside when their child is born - and they do it religiously. They make sacrifices to do it - they drive old cars, live in less house than they can “afford,” they don’t vacation. And they are likely to still need loans and grants. Or they do the Tiger Mom thing (I work with one - her kid is at Stanford ;)) so that they get exceptional kids. But that wasn’t cheap for my coworker either - there were music lessons and tutoring expenses and summers at Science camp. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/238 "2011-06-03T22:09:48Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > How so? Did you get shit on as a nerd kid or a poor kid? Or both? Both does make things interesting. As a Hispanic kid and as a poor kid, actually. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/239 "2011-06-03T22:10:41Z")
I’m just going to stand over here with the folks who haven’t managed to save anything for their kid’s education. Hell, I want to go back to school myself and haven’t even figured out how to manage that, and I project it will only be 4 semesters at Ivy Tech, which is as cheap as you can get around here. Like some of the other parents here, I just try to be realistic with my kids. My 12 year old is extremely smart and thinks he’d like to go into something complicated and scientific that his mother would never understand, perhaps astrophysics now that he can finally pronounce it. 😉 But he knows the path…community college, four-year, and then go-it-on-your-own further education if he wants. We do have the 21st Century Scholars program here in Indiana, which should enable him to attend a 4 yr state college, provided the state doesn’t run out of money to fund it. Frankly I’m not counting on the government providing anything at this point. I expect that he’ll have to rely on loans and hopefully scholarships. And I don’t have a problem with that…it’s not an easy way to go, but it does put the responsibility of his education on his shoulders rather than mine, and I don’t think that’s a bad way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/240 "2011-06-03T22:57:03Z")
I think kids who work for their education appreciate it more too. Sure they don’t get the party school experience but who wants to pay 20k a year so their kid can get drunk with all their friends anyway. I used to feel guilty about the fact that my kids were working their way through school but although I’m sure they would take more money from me should I offer it, they’re getting a sense of ownership and satisfaction from working for themselves and their future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068.md?page=13)