# I Pit Lack of Finacial Aid for my Kid's College Education! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068 "2011-06-02T07:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/301 "2011-06-05T19:22:39Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > Oh yah, I really believe that if I woke up tomorrow and I was black, my loans would disappear without a trace and I’d have a free ride to any college I wanted to go to. Isn’t it obvious? Your posts to this thread are just about that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/302 "2011-06-05T19:28:24Z")
Your FACE is just about that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/303 "2011-06-05T20:14:10Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > Blah, blah, blah, asshole. I actually said before that I wasn’t eligible for Pell because I A) Make too much money and B) have no children. Somebody else brought race into it, and I added my anecdotal experience. Race certainly does factor into some scholarships, though. A local university offers a scholarship to men from X county who graduated from X high school before 2008. They can get damn specific. > [@needscoffee](#): > > My daughter didn’t qualify for several scholarships that were for women of older-than-college age who are returning to school. I should clarify that what I meant was that as a graduating senior, my daughter is not eligible for scholarships reserved for people such as you, older women returning to school. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/304 "2011-06-05T20:21:29Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I should clarify that what I meant was that as a graduating senior, my daughter is not eligible for scholarships reserved for people such as you, older women returning to school. I’m not an older woman returning to school. I entered college immediately out of high school. I’m 25. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/305 "2011-06-05T20:24:36Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > Your FACE is just about that stupid. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/306 "2011-06-05T20:28:28Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I doubt that. Let us know about those Ivies and Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore types you got into. A _few_ UC schools might be considered “the best”, but I’d really only argue that for Berkeley and maybe LA, with a huge gap before we get to Davis/SB/etc. Obviously they’re excellent if we restrict ourselves to state schools. > > I’m sure you can find a few examples of students transferring from CCs to top schools, especially for the larger ones and especially as we leave the top 5 or top 10, but it’s difficult. For a top liberal arts school it borders impossible. > > Yes, CCs are a great option for many people, but let’s not have delusions that they are without limitations. Those limitations may be irrelevant, especially for someone who couldn’t get into the best schools anyway or someone who wants to get into a top program that happens to be at a school that’s easier to get into, but they’re there. I got into DePaul U with an AA. It wasn’t Yale, but who needs Yale? (Not that I applied to Yale.) Anyway, I ‘spawned’, so I went elsewhere re: costs, but ‘top five schools’ are overrated. U of Colorado is a ‘top state’ school. UW-Madison is good…obviously Virginia, William & Mary, CUNY, and UC-Berkeley are up there, but if you go to a good liberal arts college, apply yourself and not be a jerkoff, your graduate school options widen quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/307 "2011-06-05T20:57:08Z")
LOL @ your face is stupid. You got totally pwned, **mhendo**. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/308 "2011-06-05T21:40:31Z")
> [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](#): > > Of course we could take out student loans, but the forcast for the next big financial bubble to burst is college student loans. Will it be worth it to start a life $40,000 in debt? In this economy? > [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](#): > > She really really was looking forward to studying biomedical engineering. Oh well, Denny’s needs another good waitress. **surrounded by literalists** , (if you’re still reading), yes, I think $40k of debt is an acceptable risk IF your daughter plans to work as a biomedical engineer once she has her degree. According to [this](http://www.engineersalary.com/Biomedical.asp) website, the average starting salary for biomedical engineer with a Bachelors Degree is approximately $53,470. The numbers I have seen vary, but typically, you don’t want your student debt to exceed 150% of your anticipated starting salary. I took on loans that totaled approximately 75% of my first years’ salary. I have a ten year repayment plan and am nearly finished paying them off. While I definitely notice the money leaving my bank account, the payments have never been a hardship for me. Huge caveat: I have had the good fortune of being continuously employed since graduating. That loans/salary ratio obviously doesn’t apply if you don’t have good job prospects. I have a close friend in the biomedical engineering field, and in _her_ estimation, current and future job prospects in the field are stable and salaries are comfortable. If your daughter is willing to work in industry, particularly in sales, it can be a downright lucrative career. (This is the opinion of a friend of a stranger on the internet so further research on your daughter’s part is probably warranted. :)) ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/309 "2011-06-05T21:53:47Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > If your daughter is willing to work in industry, particularly in sales, it can be a downright lucrative career. This is a key part, but even prior to that: how sure is your daughter that she wont want to change her major once she has to take a few major classes? I can’t tell you how many of my friends were hardcore science majors who ended up graduating with degrees in exciting and marketable things like philosophy and English. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/310 "2011-06-05T21:59:07Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > This is a key part, but even prior to that: how sure is your daughter that she wont want to change her major once she has to take a few major classes? I can’t tell you how many of my friends were hardcore science majors who ended up graduating with degrees in exciting and marketable things like philosophy and English. This is very, very true and is something her daughter should consider. (Thanks!) It is also a strong argument for two years of community college followed by a transfer to a university with a good biomedical engineering department. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/311 "2011-06-05T22:43:23Z")
Did she try all the wacky scholarships listed at fastweb? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/312 "2011-06-05T23:45:14Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > I’m not claiming that any system works, I’m claiming that you can get an education without scholarships and grants, without going to big expensive universities in another state, and that you don’t have to be completely miserable doing it. But, judging from your posts, you sound completely miserable. So your claim isn’t particularly persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/313 "2011-06-05T23:49:55Z")
> [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](#): > > I work at a community college. I see the programs that have been cut. I see the students who have had their plans and goals completely blown away. Most of our students who were on the verge of transfer to a UC-CSU, got notices that either the school had cancelled their program of study, was limiting enrollment, or that their California based financial aid had dried up and wouldn’t be available. And the reason for that? Too many people who can’t plan ahead and expect the state to pick up the tab for their kids, house, education, whatever. On one hand you are upset because you can’t get free money to send your child to college and on the other hand you are upset because the state is running out of money to fund those colleges. Do you see the irony? > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > This is a key part, but even prior to that: how sure is your daughter that she wont want to change her major once she has to take a few major classes? I can’t tell you how many of my friends were hardcore science majors who ended up graduating with degrees in exciting and marketable things like philosophy and English. It’s also possible that the daughter won’t even want to stay in college - there is a big difference between the work load in college and in high school. Particularly what she wants to do - my husband is a biomedical engineer (without the degree) so you are talking serious math and science classes here. She may meet someone, marry and drop out to have children. So many things can happen at that stage of life. I just can’t see how it is a better idea financially to send an 18 year old kid off to college in a different state, thereby paying extra tuition as well as room and board, instead of “taking a chance” on a local CA college. Even if it turns out she can’t get all of her classes on time, it cannot possibly cost as much to take 5-6 years to get a degree at home as it would to do it in four out of state. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/314 "2011-06-05T23:58:53Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > But, judging from your posts, you sound completely miserable. So your claim isn’t particularly persuasive. Right, you can judge the state of my life from a few posts I’ve made in a single thread. In case you weren’t paying attention, I’ve had a rough week. Right now I’m eating pancakes and watching Alton Brown, and I’m perfectly happy. When the school releases the funds from my student loan I’ll be reimbursed for the textbooks I have to buy and back to my normal state of living. Would this degree be worth it if I’d spent seven years in a state of complete misery to achieve it? Considering the job market here, probably not. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/315 "2011-06-06T00:22:00Z")
> [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](#): > > She applied to 6 Universities. We couldn’t afford to pay for more applications. Application fees ranged from $95 - $35. On top of that were the fees for transcripts and test scores to be sent to those to which we applied . (. . .) We picked two private schools, two medium cost schools and two inexpensive schools. Of the two inexpensive schools, both were in California. One was considering not accepting a freshman class at all and the other had just cut a number of programs and of the programs that were left, classes required for graduation had been reduced to classes being offered once every three years or cut all together. This left the students already enrolled totally screwed. My feeling was that this educational environment was a poor investment risk. I’m sure there is more involved than the brief summary here, but if you could only afford to apply to six schools, then is there a reason why were you applying to private ones in first place? Did you find out about the classes being cut for the inexpensive ones before you applied? Could you have found out and applied to others instead of the ones you did? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/316 "2011-06-06T00:34:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And the reason for that? Too many people who can’t plan ahead and expect the state to pick up the tab for their kids, house, education, whatever. On one hand you are upset because you can’t get free money to send your child to college and on the other hand you are upset because the state is running out of money to fund those colleges. It’s because of decreased state tax revenues due to unemployment and the bad economy. > [@](#): > > I just can’t see how it is a better idea financially to send an 18 year old kid off to college in a different state, thereby paying extra tuition as well as room and board, instead of “taking a chance” on a local CA college. Even if it turns out she can’t get all of her classes on time, it cannot possibly cost as much to take 5-6 years to get a degree at home as it would to do it in four out of state. With the financial aid packages private schools can put together, friends of ours found it the same price to send their kid to an out-of-state private school as the local state university. Plus the OP’s daughter won’t have to worry that her program is going to be cut. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/317 "2011-06-06T00:50:46Z")
Yeah, I would think that for a plan to be realistic, having two private schools (which I’m assuming are brand name, top-tier) at the top of the list is just cruising for a bruising. I probably would have gone for one well-known private and one well-known _local_ public. Then all the selections after that would have been ones that were affordable and quality. I wouldn’t have had any on the list that I perceived to be crappy or “bad investments”. What would be the point in applying to such a place? I also agree that the daughter is likely to change her career idea, if not her major, which would mean selecting a school based strictly on the biomedical engineering program might not be the best course. I attended an engineering school and after the first year, it was amazing how many students who were majoring in electrical or mechanical engineering suddenly wanted to be industrial engineers (the one perceived to be the easiest) or become management majors (pretty much dominated by student athletes). Because an engineering school can only offer so many courses of study, there were very few ways for students who had come to the realization that they did not like science at all to still stay with the school. I’m sure lots of scholarships, as well as self-esteems, were lost just because they didn’t have choices and felt stuck where they were. Those first two years can suck you dry if you lack the passion and just aren’t good in engineering classes. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/318 "2011-06-06T01:24:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Those first two years can suck you dry if you lack the passion and just aren’t good in engineering classes. You know what else sucks you dry? Your FACE. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/319 "2011-06-06T01:26:23Z")
Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![surrounded\_by\_literalists](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@surrounded\_by\_literalists](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/surrounded_by_literalists)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lack-of-finacial-aid-for-my-kids-college-education/584068/320 "2011-06-06T02:26:44Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > **surrounded by literalists** , (if you’re still reading), yes, I think $40k of debt is an acceptable risk IF your daughter plans to work as a biomedical engineer… > > The numbers I have seen vary, but typically, you don’t want your student debt to exceed 150% of your anticipated starting salary. I took on loans that totaled approximately 75% of my first years’ salary. I have a ten year repayment plan and am nearly finished paying them off. While I definitely notice the money leaving my bank account, the payments have never been a hardship for me. This is very helpful. Its hard to accept such a large debt without knowing what the chances are of paying it off afterward. A new graduate will be paying off loans, plus be able to pull in enough to get an apartment (first, last, security deposit), possibly a car and insurance, deposits for various utilities, and still cover day to day expenses on what she makes just out of the gate; which will probably be not much for a few years. We repay our loans. Not re-paying is not an option. We have always been careful to make sure we can repay before we borrow. Our home is the only debt we have had that has taken longer than 2 years to pay off. Which is part of the problem. The mess with calculating the credit scores has made it difficult to get lending for such a large amount of money. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > This is a key part, but even prior to that: how sure is your daughter that she wont want to change her major once she has to take a few major classes? I can’t tell you how many of my friends were hardcore science majors who ended up graduating with degrees in exciting and marketable things like philosophy and English. My daughter and I have had this discussion. As a talented artist, she wanted to go into computer generated graphic art. I told her she could do anything she wanted to do and I would support her, but if she couldn’t support herself, she would be up the proverbial creek. After a few weeks of research, she decided to make graphic art her first personal metamorphisis. (Doing one thing all your life leads to spiritual, emotional, and intellectual stagnation; therefore at some point, one must re-invent themselves and their way of life, several times before ‘the end’). > [@vivalostwages](#): > > Did she try all the wacky scholarships listed at fastweb? We will be checking this one. Wacky seems to work for us far more than traditional. Truth is always stranger than fiction. > [@curlcoat](#): > > And the reason for that? Too many people who can’t plan ahead and expect the state to pick up the tab for their kids, house, education, whatever. On one hand you are upset because you can’t get free money to send your child to college and on the other hand you are upset because the state is running out of money to fund those colleges. Do you see the irony? > > It’s also possible that the daughter won’t even want to stay in college - there is a big difference between the work load in college and in high school. Particularly what she wants to do - my husband is a biomedical engineer (without the degree) so you are talking serious math and science classes here. She may meet someone, marry and drop out to have children. So many things can happen at that stage of life. > > I just can’t see how it is a better idea financially to send an 18 year old kid off to college in a different state, thereby paying extra tuition as well as room and board, instead of “taking a chance” on a local CA college. Even if it turns out she can’t get all of her classes on time, it cannot possibly cost as much to take 5-6 years to get a degree at home as it would to do it in four out of state. I implore you to actually read what I have posted in the past. Forgive me for asking, but why are you so bitter? What makes you so opposed to accessible higher education? It saddens me that you cannot see the difference between investment and entitlement. Please read "[A Conservative Argument For Higher Education".](http://uci-ags.blogspot.com/2010/04/legislators-have-at-this-point-probably.html)[From this article](http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2010/02/president-obama-cuts-funding-for-successful-educational-programs/), conservatives, such as yourself, seem interested in funding higher education programs. I also ask you to do the math. Where is the savings of 6 years at what you call a cheaper school (if what is left of the UC-CSU system stays intact in that time) and 3 years at an out of state school? Lets not forget that the cost of living in the area she plans to be in is 25% lower than here in Ca. > [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > I’m sure there is more involved than the brief summary here, but if you could only afford to apply to six schools, then is there a reason why were you applying to private ones in first place? > > Did you find out about the classes being cut for the inexpensive ones before you applied? Could you have found out and applied to others instead of the ones you did? The expensive private schools both offered her full tuition and living expenses scholarships. Unfortunately, she was waitlisted for both. 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