Point taken. You’re “right”, and I’m “wrong”. Happy?
One thing though - you asked me how I plan to pay for my children’s college if they plan on going in the future? What on EARTH makes you think I intend to pay for my kid’s college education? If they’re smart enough, they’ll figure it out. If they wanna pay it back, loans are available. Grants are available. Scholarships may or may not be available. If not, they’ll go into a different career. None of that means I intend to withhold help from them if they need it. But I’m not preparing to pay for the whole damn thing. Like I said…fuck that feeding the system bullshit. It costs so god damned much to attend college because assholes like yourself are willing to pay them whatever god forsaken price they ask, thinking that they’re getting some kind of fucking gravy ticket to a life of wonderful happiness with money flowing out their god damned assholes, or some philosophical life of fulfillment.
I will however point out that *I *do not have a college education, and I earn around $45K per year. That’s not much, but I am only 28 years old, and I was earning around $35K per year at age 24. How many college graduates can hope to earn that much at graduation - without the burden of school loans? I know there are plenty…but I ask you honestly, HOW MANY? Does that make it worth the price of the diploma? I SAY NO. I don’t believe in glass ceilings - unless you are determined to stay in a career that requires formal education, in which case, yep your pay is pegged to your education level.
You can disagree with me alllll day long. It doesn’t change the facts of my life, or the lives of my friends, of the lives of the many individuals who have lived wonderful lives worth remembering all without the aid of an expensive degree.
That does not make me a fucking hippy, you dipshit. Like I said - your opinions reveal you to be jaded. Maybe *you *could stand to take in a little rainbow bunny hippy love nonsense? :rolleyes:
People need to realize it’s not all about “sending your children to school”. It’s not some luxury that rich (adults) give to their kids. It really shouldn’t matter whether the parents are rich alumni from some Ivy League or welfare parents from the ghetto. The amount of money their parents saved (whether or not they had the opportunity to) should not have an impact on their children’s educational opportunities.
Case in point: myself. I just graduated from high school with a 3.6 weighted (3.2 unweighted) GPA, 32 ACT, and 2190 SAT (would be 1440 on the old scale). National Merit Scholarship Program semifinalist. Despite all this, the state university I am attending (trying to be financially responsible- got a generous scholarship from a nationally-respected private university, but the state school was still less) won’t give me much of anything. I come from a single-parent, middle-class household, and there are no college savings. I am royally royally fucked for at least the next 25 years of my life, if not more. It may be easy for you middle-aged people (and I say that with no pejorative intent) to proselytize on and on about taxpayers, etc. etc. but let me assure you it is far more pants-shittingly terrifying coming from the other end of the system. And parents, (OP included), it may suck for you to not be able to send your kids to college, but if anyone should be Pitting this issue it should be them.
Also Cappex. They may have the same listings, but a different interface. There are several of these clearinghouse sites. One of them had the ability to sort by ease of applying, $ amount, or odds of winning, etc.
Haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand something.
Getting ‘straight As’ quite frankly doesn’t mean much, given the massive variation in how schools grade. I got As and Bs all through Junior and Senior High and never once brought a text book home. Grades are mostly a function of how easy the grading is at your school.
ACT/SAT scores are much more true-to-life in figuring out where your child stacks up vs peers. ‘Top 25 percentile’ would be maybe a bit over 1700 on the SAT (2400 scale) or a 23-24 on the ACT. While ‘better than average’, the scores are hardly ‘omigod get this child a scholarship’ good.
I got some scholarship money ('cause we were dirt poor and I had a very good ACT score), I also worked my way through uni in two countries, and I had some student loans.
I really don’t see what the problem is here - it’s not like uni costs etc have been a big dark secret. Sounds to me like you didn’t start saving for this, and didn’t get your child to start preparing for this. In other words - you’re getting exactly what you prepared for.
So, at what point in time do we decide that the increasingly high burden put on the taxpayers to send these kids to college is just too much, and that those who selfishly decided to have children they couldn’t support are now on their own?
I’m sorry, but anything beyond food and shelter that you cannot afford IS a luxury. If you came from a middle-class household, then there is no reason why there couldn’t be at least some college savings for you.
This didn’t quite make sense so I’m not sure who you think should be pitting, but as far as the taxpayer is concerned, the growing belief is that those who have and raise children and expect someone else to pay for it are the ones who should be, at the least, pitted. So you will have to work your way thru college? I didn’t even get to do that - all I have is a high school diploma - and I managed to (eventually) land on my feet. Quit expecting someone else to pay your way and you will too. If you have to whine, whine at your parent.
At the point in time we, as a society, decide that lowering taxes is worth the cost of having a less-educated society, that’s when. Frankly, if you think a society with fewer college graduates is a better one if taxes are also lowered, you’re too stupid to have an opinion.
And again, the question you love dodging in these discussions–what, exactly, has the child done wrong here? If nothing, then why are you placing the punishment (child must work during college or find other means of paying for it) on someone other than the people who are to blame (parents who didn’t plan to pay for education)?
Absolutely. But not everyone who’s retired or on disability, mind you. Just you.
At the present, the USA is on top of the heap when it comes to post-secondary education, and at present, there is a general job shortage, so the problem of talented students not getting good post-secondary education has no serious immediate consequences to society. In the long term, however, I expect that the USA will face greater competition from other nations and other international blocks where education has been supported.
If an employer looking for white collar staff has a choice between an entitled American, or a brighter and better trained non-American, which will the employer choose? If a multinational can locate where there is a better educated workforce, where will that multinational locate?
Once the industrialized nations get past the present slump, I expect that the USA will have a more difficult time holding its place due to it letting its educational competitive advantage slip.
Want to eat well? Be willing to raise the crops through to harvest.
You first. At this time, I have to believe that I am far more useful than you are.
So, in other words, you think that the only way that anyone is going to get a college education is if someone hands it to them on a silver platter? Or that the only way we can get some tax relief from having to pay to send the children of the irresponsible to college is to deny them access? Speaking of too stupid to have an opinion…
I have never ducked that incredibly stupid question. However, it does have zero to do with the subject at hand.
:eek: Working for something you want is now punishment?
As for placing the “punishment” on the people who are to blame, why are you putting it off on me by requiring I pay for the parents’ lack of planning and/or concern for their own children, simply because you have some idea that only a college education done in four years will lead to peace, love and freedom? This is the root of the problem - you are expecting responsible people to pick up the slack for the irresponsible simply because you can’t deal with the idea of an 18 year old working his way thru school and/or taking more than four years to finish college.
Who knows? However, apparently working at that age just to keep oneself alive is just fine and dandy with these folks. My reward for working myself into the ground is to go sit on an ice floe. :rolleyes:
When the powers-that-be decided that the means test for college funding was tied to the parents’ income rather than to the student’s. Suddenly, you’ve set up a system where, regardless of the student’s qualifications or academic ability or work ethic, students who have poor parents or responsible parents have easy access to subsidies and loans, and students with rich parents or irresponsible parents do not.
The outcomes are not tied to anything meaningful, because of this expectation (built into federal policy) that parents pay for college for their kids.
No, the root of the discussion is that you keep harping on the PARENTS being irresponsible, and then proposing solutions that only affect the CHILD whose responsibility status is unknown. That’s the entire disconnect and that’s why you’re a moron.
No, dear, that’s your reward for being a sanctimonious dick.
Hardly. You seem to be assuming that an 18 year old is a CHILD and therefore completely helpless.
You want a solution that affects the PARENTS? Create a payroll tax that goes directly into a college fund, said tax to increase with each child they have.
Ah. Then you will be joining Muffin on that ice flow?
Which is another reason why I will not be feeding the damn system. Life goes on with or without all the bullshit that our currently screwed up college education system brings.
My kids will be educated just fine thank you very much. And if they want to go to college that badly, well then I’m sure they’ll figure out a way to get through it. But I’m not gonna be sacrificing the education that they can receive during their youth because of some “need” that’s been foisted upon me by societal pressure to save every fucking dime I make to send them into a broken system. That money will be better spent on things like a decent home, and regular interactive activities. Hell I’d rather spend $10,000 a year on a fucking model rocket hobby and hot air balloon trips for my kid (which builds a desire to DO things that require an active mind) than save that money so he “might” go to college to learn how the hamster wheel works. (an extreme example to illustrate a point)
Perversely, I’ve had MUCH better luck with hiring folks out of Vo-Tech, the military, and hobbyist enthusiasts without degrees than I have ever had with hiring folks with IT degrees.