# I pit lazy inconsiderate asshole customers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904 "2012-02-25T01:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/81 "2012-03-02T02:37:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I can see a couple of people behaving like assholes in that story, but the customer isn’t one of them. > > If the salesman agreed to an out-the-door price, then he can’t come back and renege as if he didn’t know about sales tax. > > “Out the door” means I give you the money and I am out the door with my new car. It does not mean “oh by the way, here’s another $500 you have to kick in.” > > Regards, > Shodan I know what out the door means and so did the my salesman friend honest. It wasn’t his first day. The out the door agreement was never made. That’s the point. Perhaps the customer thought they were talking tax included but unless that is clarified and specifically mentioned in negotiations, sales tax is not included. The customer had gotten a better discount than normal and then balked at the register. Maybe it was an honest misunderstanding , but the fact that he essentially called the salesman he’d been haggling with for several hours a liar and insisted on talking to the manager makes him a dick. I’ve had this happen to me as well. When a customer accuses me of going back on my word {on something I never said} it pisses me off. The last time someone did that to me I told he needed to recognize a good deal, pay for it and say thank you, or get out. He paid up. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/82 "2012-03-02T02:47:46Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Yeah, my interpretation was that the customer claimed the salesman had said it was an out-the-door price, but the salesman had actually never said any such thing. You are correct. An experienced decent sales person doesn’t waste time on games like that. It’s clarified in negotiations. If “tax included” or “Out the Door” isn’t mentioned then it should be assumed that the negotiated price does not cover sales tax. The part that made the customer a dick was that even after the salesman explained , granting an honest misunderstanding, he still insisted and wanted to argue even though he was already getting a great deal. His piss poor attitude cost him the deal. I’ve employed the reverse discount technique with difficult customers with success. I offer a good and fair discount. They insist on even more. I offer a smaller discount than I previously did and when they react with surprise I ask them how good my original offer sounds now. It’s just my fun way of letting them know I’m not going any lower. I only employ that with customers who are unrealistic in what they want. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/83 "2012-03-02T02:50:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I got the impression that that was part of the special deal the salesman gave him to make him go away. If not, then I agree with you. > > Regards, > Shodan You got the wrong impression. No decent salesperson would negotiate that way. How would you make a customer go away by changing the deal at the register? You might as well say no way, on the sales floor. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/84 "2012-03-02T03:11:45Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > No decent salesperson would negotiate that way. It might have escaped your attention, but the sales profession is not short of less-than-decent people. In any given he-said-she-said situation, i’d be about equally likely to believe the customer as to believe the salesperson. And i say that as someone who spent a year selling cars for a living. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/85 "2012-03-02T03:14:11Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I had that happen when I bought my car. I negotiated out the door price with the salesman, because that’s all I cared about. When I got to the finance guys office it was magically not the out the door price. I pointed at the quote sheet which said in big letters “OTD” next to my price. He said they never negotiate out the door price, so I picked up my checkbook, started to leave, and told him that was too bad he was going back on the deal, because I was ready to buy the car. He went out and talked with the salesman and sales manager for a while and came back and decided to make a special exception and give me my OTD price, because that’s what they’d agreed to on the signed quote sheet. I did that with a particularly dishonest car dealer one time (the real dishonesty is a separate story by itself, won’t go into it here). In the finance office they presented me with paper work that wasn’t the same as the deal we had agreed to (with explanations as to why the amount “had” to be different). I didn’t even say a word to the finance person, I just stood up, walked out of the office and headed towards the front door. As I headed towards the door I told the salesperson to call me when he wants to make the original deal. He told me to wait, and then he and the finance person put on a show pretending to resolve the “problem” and ultimately I bought the car for the agreed upon price. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/86 "2012-03-02T10:13:19Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > IOW, they get to the register and now want to argue about the sales tax, or claim I made a deal I never actually made. Also not appreciated. My initial reaction to that was “asshole” but after several encounters I believe it’s just one technique used by certain people who come from a culture where haggling {or naggling} is expected and a point of personal pride. I also think language barriers cause some of the frustration for customers and us. Haggling etiquette is 100% cultural and not only that it is specific to class of retailer and item within cultures, and prices in areas where it is expected reflect that and even the level expected. I’m assuming once customers know that haggling is an expected part of car purchasing in the USA they just apply their own standard as to what is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/87 "2012-03-02T12:27:18Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I know what out the door means and so did the my salesman friend honest. It wasn’t his first day. The out the door agreement was never made. That’s the point. > > Perhaps the customer thought they were talking tax included but unless that is clarified and specifically mentioned in negotiations, sales tax is not included. The customer had gotten a better discount than normal and then balked at the register. Much of my assumption was based on the fact that the owner snatched the receipt out of the manager’s hand. I would expect a receipt to include all the money that the customer paid - that’s the purpose of a receipt. When I buy a car, I don’t get out my checkbook until I have a clear idea of the final figure - taxes and license included. But then the salesman would draw up a receipt with all those charges included, and that’s the point at which I pay. Perhaps I reacted because I experienced something roughly similar once when I bought a car, where the asshole salesman kept telling me “the car you ordered is ready” and then when I wanted to take possession, tried to get more money out of me for options I didn’t order. That son of a bitch tried it on me twice. Once he called me up and said he couldn’t get the car I ordered, but there was another car with more options. I told him to call me when he had the car I ordered. Then he called me up again and told me my car was ready, and didn’t mention the extra option until I was in the showroom. I think he was hoping I would pay more after I was in the door. It didn’t work that way. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/88 "2012-03-02T14:19:29Z")
Honestly I think it’s an ambiguous point as to whether or not a negotiated price includes this tax or excludes that rebate, yada yada yada. I think both parties need to be very clear on the terms in order to avoid miscommunication errors. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/89 "2012-03-02T14:52:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It might have escaped your attention, but the sales profession is not short of less-than-decent people. In any given he-said-she-said situation, i’d be about equally likely to believe the customer as to believe the salesperson. > > And i say that as someone who spent a year selling cars for a living. I don’t mean decent in the sense of really honest, but as in experienced. Of course I know plenty of salespeople as less then honest, but it would be just plain stupid to agree to a tax included price and then deny it at the register moments and ask for more money. That will only alienate the customer and make your dishonesty very obvious. Most decent salespeople, even the dishonest ones, don’t want to do that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/90 "2012-03-02T15:05:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Much of my assumption was based on the fact that the owner snatched the receipt out of the manager’s hand. I would expect a receipt to include all the money that the customer paid - that’s the purpose of a receipt. > > When I buy a car, I don’t get out my checkbook until I have a clear idea of the final figure - taxes and license included. But then the salesman would draw up a receipt with all those charges included, and that’s the point at which I pay. > > Perhaps I reacted because I experienced something roughly similar once when I bought a car, where the asshole salesman kept telling me “the car you ordered is ready” and then when I wanted to take possession, tried to get more money out of me for options I didn’t order. That son of a bitch tried it on me twice. Once he called me up and said he couldn’t get the car I ordered, but there was another car with more options. I told him to call me when he had the car I ordered. Then he called me up again and told me my car was ready, and didn’t mention the extra option until I was in the showroom. I think he was hoping I would pay more after I was in the door. > > It didn’t work that way. > > Regards, > Shodan I see. I tried to be brief. The customer had brow beaten the manager into giving him the deal the salesman never agreed to and the manager was witing it up. I’m not sure if money had changed hands but the owner trumps the manager and can cancel a bad deal. I would agree that’s a bad way to handle it if money has changed hands and the customer has a reciept, but as you can see , the customer did not have a reciept. That was the point of the end of the conversation where the customer expected the owner to go along with the manager’s bad decision. I know there are snakes out there but this story is not about them. It’s about the customer being an asshole in his determination to browbeat someone into a deal. Personally I have no problem with people who like to haggle as long as they remain pleasent about it. I’ve had some customers admit they don’t like paying full retail and ask for $5 off just so they feel better. I can appreciate that kind of directness. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/91 "2012-03-02T15:11:26Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > Honestly I think it’s an ambiguous point as to whether or not a negotiated price includes this tax or excludes that rebate, yada yada yada. I think both parties need to be very clear on the terms in order to avoid miscommunication errors. Of course. And if there is a misunderstanding then let’s call it that rather than imply someone is lying. So at the register when the saleman says " I’m sorry, but I didn’t include taxes, and I can’t do that deal" the customer can decide yay or nay , rather than continue to argue. Perosnally, and for lots of honest salespeople I know and have worked with, once a customer implies I’m a liar then there’s no deal and you don’t want to deal with them at all. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/92 "2012-03-02T15:41:04Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Of course. And if there is a misunderstanding then let’s call it that rather than imply someone is lying. So at the register when the saleman says " I’m sorry, but I didn’t include taxes, and I can’t do that deal" the customer can decide yay or nay , rather than continue to argue. > > Perosnally, and for lots of honest salespeople I know and have worked with, once a customer implies I’m a liar then there’s no deal and you don’t want to deal with them at all. This isn’t meant to be an attack on you but just me playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment: I remember when I was younger and one day I went to the emergency room (first time I had ever gone to a hospital in years and years) over a nasty stomach problem and I wanted testing done immediately. They sent me home without really doing anything. I later had to make another appointment to get the problem fixed, but long story short I was charged a ridiculous amount for what was, as far as I could tell, absolutely nothing. So I went to the hospital later to negotiate the cost because I thought it was vastly disproportionate to the level of service administered. I made it clear that I was willing to pay X amount and eventually they told me yes. But when I went to go pay, it was pretty much “Well, technically X goes to the hospital. You still need to pay the physician bill. We don’t handle that stuff” which was also equally high. That sort of situation really steamed me up because _while it wasn’t an outright lie, it felt like a lie by omission_. In other words, the context of the negotiation was pretty clear: I was willing to pay X for the entire thing – done deal – go home. I felt like the person I was negotiating with obviously knew this and for whatever reason didn’t feel compelled to let me know that I was negotiating X for part of the bill, not the whole thing. It’s not like I knew how the billing system worked at the time. I didn’t know what they could and could not handle and I felt like the onus was on them to tell me that and correct me, especially given the context of my negotiation. Just throwing in some food for thought – it’s entirely possible your situation was different, but I’m just illustrating why people on the other side feel that such negotiations can still appear dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904/93 "2012-03-03T13:45:19Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > This isn’t meant to be an attack on you but just me playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment: > > I remember when I was younger and one day I went to the emergency room (first time I had ever gone to a hospital in years and years) over a nasty stomach problem and I wanted testing done immediately. They sent me home without really doing anything. I later had to make another appointment to get the problem fixed, but long story short I was charged a ridiculous amount for what was, as far as I could tell, absolutely nothing. > > So I went to the hospital later to negotiate the cost because I thought it was vastly disproportionate to the level of service administered. I made it clear that I was willing to pay X amount and eventually they told me yes. > > But when I went to go pay, it was pretty much “Well, technically X goes to the hospital. You still need to pay the physician bill. We don’t handle that stuff” which was also equally high. > > That sort of situation really steamed me up because _while it wasn’t an outright lie, it felt like a lie by omission_. In other words, the context of the negotiation was pretty clear: I was willing to pay X for the entire thing – done deal – go home. I felt like the person I was negotiating with obviously knew this and for whatever reason didn’t feel compelled to let me know that I was negotiating X for part of the bill, not the whole thing. > > It’s not like I knew how the billing system worked at the time. I didn’t know what they could and could not handle and I felt like the onus was on them to tell me that and correct me, especially given the context of my negotiation. > > Just throwing in some food for thought – it’s entirely possible your situation was different, but I’m just illustrating why people on the other side feel that such negotiations can still appear dishonest. Nit only is it entirely possible , it’s perfectly obvious the situation I describe is significantly different. Did you actually read it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lazy-inconsiderate-asshole-customers/613904.md?page=4)