# I Pit LHOD and his thread re: AA in schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658 "2009-06-04T02:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/201 "2009-06-06T00:04:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How much do you think he paid for it? Twice as much as your kid’s worth that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/202 "2009-06-06T00:50:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > When something is idiotic there is no good argument to rebut it with. It’s just stupid. The difference between casting a black man to play a black man and affirmative action should be obvious to anyone. So if you want an argument to respond to something that should be blindingly obvious. > > The color of his skin is relevant to his proper performance of the job for an actor playing Michael Jordan. If his skin is NOT black, he cannot perform the job as capably as an actor whose skin IS black. > :rolleyes: I still don’t think you get it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/203 "2009-06-06T02:03:29Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I still don’t think you get it. No, obviously I don’t. I really do not see what the validity of an actor playing Michael Jordan has to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/204 "2009-06-06T02:05:34Z")
Can someone else explain this to him? I think I’m using the wrong font or something. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/205 "2009-06-06T02:06:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **Rand Rover** , given both my previous encounters with you and your approach in that thread (and now in this thread), I consider you beneath contempt. I’m not obligated to continue the discussion with any jackass who shows up in it. [snip] > > If someone interesting decides to argue with me, from a civil, honest, respectful position, I’m delighted to take them up on it. That’s why I posted the OP. But I won’t waste any more time on you after this one post. Here’s my first post in that thread: > [@](#): > > You keep saying this. I don’t think it’s true. On the contrary, I would bet that most black males that “these black boys” see at home are multi-millionaires. If role models on TV don’t count, why? How much interaction must one of “these black boys” have with a black male adult for that black male adult to count as a role model? > > Also, do you have a cite for the proposition that “these black boys” would have better life outcomes if they had a black male teacher? This idea is being treated as accepted truth, but it ain’t necessarily so. Would one black male teacher be enough, or is there some tipping point at a certain number, or do their outcomes get better on a smooth curve as the number of black male teachers increase? The fact that you haven’t discussed any of this is very telling to me about how you really feel about “these black boys.”. That is, in the same breath that you lament Jim Crow, you keep its core idea alive, which is that “these black boys” shouldn’t be held to the same standards as everyone else because they can’t do anything about their own inferiority. What exactly was uncivil, dishonest, or unrespectful about that? You said “x is true, which causes y harm, and I propose z to stop it.” I said “prove x is true.” Your skin is way too thin if being asked to prove your assertions in GD is too much for you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/206 "2009-06-06T02:14:28Z")
Accusing him of racism certainly isn’t at all uncivil or disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/207 "2009-06-06T02:16:52Z")
OK, I’ll do it. Mswas, Cisco and Bricker\* are positing that the black male teacher is playing the role of “role model for young black boys.” Therefore, hiring a black male teacher is not an example of affirmative action, it is an example of hiring the only person qualified for the job. It’s like trying to find an actor to play Michael Jordan–it only makes sense to hire a black male, and hiring a black male to play Michael Jordan is not an example of affirmative action. I argued that the two situations are not analogous for the following two reasons: (1) It is not necessarily the case that the only person that can be a role model for a black boy is a black male. Therefore, finding a teacher to be a role model for black boys has not been proven to be the same as finding an actor to play Michael Jordan. It could very well be the case that a white male or a black woman or a white woman could also serve as a role model for black boys. (ii) A teacher isn’t just someone playing the role of a role model. Rather, a teacher also, well, teaches. Therefore, finding a teacher involves more than just finding a role model for the kids. So, to the extent that only a black male could be a role model for black boys, finding a teacher is not analogous to finding a black actor because the teacher must do more than just be black and male–they have to teach. Neither Bricker nor Cisco has deigned to answer these arguments. \*Well, Bricker made the argument. Cisco just played the role of hype man, essentially, so picture him as the little rat dude by Jaba the Hut or as wearing a large clock around his neck, take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/208 "2009-06-06T02:18:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Accusing him of racism certainly isn’t at all uncivil or disrespectful. If the shoe fits . . . I’m sure LHOD won’t respond to me. He’s too busy thinking up ways to help the poor brown people of the world have a better life (god knows they can’t help themselves and shouldn’t be expected to). This attitude disgusts me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/209 "2009-06-06T02:29:37Z")
We’re all very impressed at your cunning impression of someone with a moral sense, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/210 "2009-06-06T02:32:55Z")
What does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/211 "2009-06-06T02:40:17Z")
While watching you flounder in incomprehension at moderately complex sentence structure is always amusing, I do want to take a moment to point out that, once again, you’re moving goalposts. You re-posted your first post from the GD thread, and asked where you had been less than polite to him. When it’s pointed out that you called him a racist, your response is, “Well, he is,” as if the point of contention were whether or not **LHoD** is a racist, and not whether or not you’d been insulting in your first post. This sort of behavior is why most people on the boards (and, I imagine, most folks you meet in real life) consider you to be a weasel. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/212 "2009-06-06T02:46:50Z")
Well, to a certain extent, I’m a \*professional \*weasel (and, as is well-know, get paid quite handsomely for it). I guess “you moved the goalposts!!” is your new thing, you keep seeing that ghost under every rock (or something). Also, I may have called him a racist, but I didn’t say “You racist!” I said what I posted above, which I think is civil, honest, and respectful. That is, I think those adjectives necessarily are concerned with the attitude of the post, not its substance, and the attitude of that post was civil, honest, and respectful. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/213 "2009-06-06T02:58:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I guess “you moved the goalposts!!” is your new thing, you keep seeing that ghost under every rock (or something). Here’s a cookie. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/214 "2009-06-06T03:25:20Z")
Edited to delete: Post was days too late. I should read these threads earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/215 "2009-06-06T03:44:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, I may have called him a racist… I said what I posted above, which I think is civil, honest, and respectful. Well, ya see… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/216 "2009-06-06T04:10:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I said what I posted above, which I think is civil, honest, and respectful. And this explains why nobody likes you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/217 "2009-06-06T04:16:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And this explains why nobody likes you. “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” - John Rogers ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/218 "2009-06-06T04:30:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Edited to delete: Post was days too late. I should read these threads earlier. Meh, it’s not like anything’s really changed. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/219 "2009-06-06T04:47:53Z")
Yeah, but there are times when I hope to be on top of things. Sure, **RR** is saying nothing he hasn’t pontificated on before, and I realize I’m _often_ a day late and a dollar short, but ya can’t fault a guy for knowing it. It’s better to fault guys like **RR** for NOT knowing it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/220 "2009-06-06T12:43:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” - John Rogers I rarely guffaw when I read something on the Internet. There’s always an exception, though… 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658.md?page=12)