# I Pit LHOD and his thread re: AA in schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658 "2009-06-04T02:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/161 "2009-06-05T12:57:19Z")
I get it, consider your back patted. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/162 "2009-06-05T14:08:35Z")
Somebody needs to update [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320298) in ATMB to include the term “RandRolled.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/163 "2009-06-05T14:15:57Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Fuck sakes. If we stipulate that you’re a millionaire and you own a mansion und a yacht, will for once shut the fuck up about the huge piles of money you sleep on. As if his piles of Monopoly money had any bearing on his worth to society. Who gives a fuck?? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/164 "2009-06-05T14:30:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What questions did I dodge? And it’s not true that I don’t believe in role models, I’m just not going to take LHOD’s word as if it were gospel. I mentioned that I didn’t have a role model because LHOD assumed that every white kid did. I call bullshit. Even your screen name denotes (one of) your role models. [Sociologist Robert Merton coined the term:](http://www.aps-pub.com/proceedings/1484/480411.pdf) > [@](#): > > The term “role model” first appeared in a Columbia study of the > socialization of medical students, and was to become wildly popular. > Merton emphasized that, rather than assuming one status and one role, > a person has a status set in the social structure to which is attached a > whole role-set of expected behavior—and that, within those sets, ambiguities, > incompatibilities, and conflicts almost inevitably lurk. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/165 "2009-06-05T15:23:06Z")
Right, you are raising the issue of just what a “role model” is exactly, which is a good issue to raise. I had anywhere from zero to a couple hundred or more role models depending on how the term is defined. However, LHOD isn’t interested in that discussion either. Like those that kept Jim Crow going, discriminating on the basis of race fits his prejudices, so there’s no room for facts and debate. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/166 "2009-06-05T15:23:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How much do you think he paid for it? Obviously at least five times what a worthless pobe such as yourself paid. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/167 "2009-06-05T15:53:56Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Why should I take you seriously after you blatantly dodged the questions I’ve directed at you in this thread? And I should point out to anyone else who might get the urge to bother: this discussion is pretty pointless to have with a guy who basically doesn’t believe that role models exist. It’s like talking dinosaurs with a fundie. Funny, that was nearly exactly my thought on cites - I was actually thinking “evolution with a Fundie.” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/168 "2009-06-05T16:21:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeah, but I’m unbeatable as white in the Evans Gambit. So there. Wonderful - **something you can actually prove**. As I’ve been playing this opening at master level for over 35 years, I take a particular interest. **Please supply some of your games.** (It’ll be interesting to see how you deal with the Normal variation and whether you follow Kasparov’s 7. Be2.) Or is this just more b_llsh_t? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/169 "2009-06-05T16:47:09Z")
And here I thought Gordon Gecko was an unbelievably over the top caricature. Just shows to go you. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/170 "2009-06-05T17:10:00Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Wonderful - **something you can actually prove**. > As I’ve been playing this opening at master level for over 35 years, I take a particular interest. > **Please supply some of your games.** > > (It’ll be interesting to see how you deal with the Normal variation and whether you follow Kasparov’s 7. Be2.) > > Or is this just more b_llsh_t? This should be interesting. I guess it’s your move, **RR**. So, \*\*Rand Rover \*\*- to be clear: you see no value in “role models” that are similar in appearance and/or background who might show young people who might be at risk that it is possible to avoid problems and end up with a more satisfying life that also contributes more to the common good. I think your point is that anyone, regardless of appearance or background, can serve in that role. Is that it? And this is based on Ayn Rand stuff - Objectivism? Just want to be clear. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/171 "2009-06-05T17:24:14Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Funny, that was nearly exactly my thought on cites - I was actually thinking “evolution with a Fundie.” You both have it exactly backwards–im saying we should look at the evidence and LHOD is saying to just trust him. Who’s the fundie then? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/172 "2009-06-05T17:27:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You both have it exactly backwards–im saying we should look at the evidence and LHOD is saying to just trust him. Who’s the fundie then? But the evidence says race and gender matched role models are beneficial. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/173 "2009-06-05T17:33:19Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Wonderful - **something you can actually prove**. > As I’ve been playing this opening at master level for over 35 years, I take a particular interest. > **Please supply some of your games.** > > (It’ll be interesting to see how you deal with the Normal variation and whether you follow Kasparov’s 7. Be2.) > > Or is this just more b_llsh_t? Please. I never get to play 7. Be2 because motherfuckers KNOW not to play 5…Be7 against me. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/174 "2009-06-05T17:37:13Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > But the evidence says race and gender matched role models are beneficial. :rolleyes: We have a link to one study indicarting that (which was not provided by LHOD, BTW). What we don’t have is any indicartion that a race and gender matched teacher is beneficial. You can’t just take that study and slap omn your own definition of role model and declare victory. Also, the main point of this thread is that LHOD didn’t bother to prove up any of his assertions. If someone links to a study showing that race and gender matched teachers are beneficial, that point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/175 "2009-06-05T17:40:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, the main point of this thread is that LHOD didn’t bother to prove up any of his assertions. No. That might have been what you wanted the point of this thread to be. But it clearly isn’t. Maybe you can write someone a check so that you get the kind of thread you want? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/176 "2009-06-05T17:42:21Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > This should be interesting. I guess it’s your move, **RR**. > > So, \*\*Rand Rover \*\*- to be clear: you see no value in “role models” that are similar in appearance and/or background who might show young people who might be at risk that it is possible to avoid problems and end up with a more satisfying life that also contributes more to the common good. I think your point is that anyone, regardless of appearance or background, can serve in that role. Is that it? And this is based on Ayn Rand stuff - Objectivism? > > Just want to be clear. This is a pit thread. I’m pitting LHOD for making assertions in GD that he doesn’t even attempt to support. The substance of those assertions are secondary. On the substance, I don’t think we should take it on faith that a black male teacher would cause better outcomes than would any other teacher. And I don’t think that LHOD’s prejudices should be used to make racially discriminatory hiring decisions. That’s pretty much it. I’m not sue rand has anything to do with any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/177 "2009-06-05T17:43:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Right, you are raising the issue of just what a “role model” is exactly, which is a good issue to raise. I had anywhere from zero to a couple hundred or more role models depending on how the term is defined. However, LHOD isn’t interested in that discussion either. Like those that kept Jim Crow going, discriminating on the basis of race fits his prejudices, so there’s no room for facts and debate. I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. It’s not that **LHoD** isn’t interested in having that discussion, it’s that he’s not interested in having that discussion _with you_. If someone who was not a raging asshole had raised the subject, I have little doubt that he’d be willing to entertain it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/178 "2009-06-05T17:50:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please. I never get to play 7. Be2 because motherfuckers KNOW not to play 5…Be7 against me. We’re still waiting on those games **glee** asked for. And the evidence of your supposed invincibility. Shouldn’t be all that hard for someone who has such disdain for the making of assertions and not proving them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/179 "2009-06-05T17:58:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You both have it exactly backwards–im saying we should look at the evidence and LHOD is saying to just trust him. Who’s the fundie then? I’ve seen the evidence. I don’t have to trust LHOD because we’ve just been through this with my school district and LHOD isn’t telling me information I haven’t gotten from other people I trust. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658/180 "2009-06-05T17:59:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. It’s not that **LHoD** isn’t interested in having that discussion, it’s that he’s not interested in having that discussion _with you_. If someone who was not a raging asshole had raised the subject, I have little doubt that he’d be willing to entertain it. So LHOD had me specifically in mind when he didn’t cite anything in the OP? I realize I’m popular here, but you are taking it a bit too far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-lhod-and-his-thread-re-aa-in-schools/498658.md?page=10)