# I Pit Libertarians who don't even know the implications of their "philosophy" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533 "2011-05-28T06:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/241 "2011-06-05T20:10:48Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Of course it’s higher: > India has 16.8 per 1000 population. > > And from what I saw there was next to no regulation at all. You could build a truck from a water pump, overload it with hay, and drive anywhere you felt like ([pics](http://www.google.com/search?q=overloaded+truck+in+india&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=652)). A scooter is considered a family vehicle ([pics](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_k3M5ngfXGQg/R7QfY4XxXkI/AAAAAAAAAl8/tiWH1lPs_Hs/s320/scooter%2Bindia4.jpg)). You should see the streets there, they have no lines, just made up lanes. The right right is for people walking, then people pulling carts, then animals pulling carts, then elephants, then rickshas (both powered and cycled), then you get cars, buses and trucks. > > So let’s say that India represents 0 regulation, and has 16.8 fatalities per 1000 population. Where would you put the US on such a scale? This is a lot easier if you’ve ever lived in or visited another country. Just pick a number between 0 and 100 where 100 represents the highest possible regulation (government inspector in your car, a regulator on the throttle, etc. ) > > Now, what would you pick as the fatality rate in the US, given the amount of regulations we have? > > United States of America 12.3 > > Seeing the two numbers, how effective are our regulations? Noting that if we got rid of them India represents the upper number, which just 16.8. Wanna know what it is in Bangladesh? 12.6 I wonder if the number of cars per capita is the same. I bet that would make a difference, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/242 "2011-06-05T23:23:01Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > [News - Brooklyn Eagle](http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=4&id=43237) > _A former health inspector for the city’s Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, Emile Nekhala, has been sentenced to two years in prison for accepting cash bribes in return for overlooking or reducing health violations in publicly funded day care centers in Brooklyn and Staten Island._ > > The decision was made a day after a county health inspector was arrested over an allegation that he took a bribe from a restaurant owner in exchange for an “A” grade during an inspection.\* > > If you can’t trust the regulators, who can you trust? Clearly, if you can find a case where regulations were broken by a criminal accepting bribes, it means that the whole system does not work, and should be thrown out, and replaced with a system that trusts that businesses (the ones who gave the bribes) will just “do the right thing”. After a few dozen kids get food poisoning, the parents of the surviving kids will choose another business to care for their children. Win-win! You have convinced me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/243 "2011-06-06T00:42:34Z")
In India, it’s quite common for people involves in road accidents to flee, because curious onlookers (and there are always curious onlookers in India) very quickly becomes a vigilante mob. Especially if you are an obviously affluent uninjured man and the other parties to the accident are women or children, the mob is likely to exact street justice. It’s quite common for someone to bs severely beaten and occasionally killed on the spot. To at least some extent, this due to extreme income disparity as well as a perception that the givernment, the police, and the justice system will be ineffective in apportioning blame and adequately compensating the injured party. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/244 "2011-06-06T13:42:26Z")
An interesting side note is that **emacknight** and I would be likely to agree on some specifics about regulation. I’ve posted in other threads about regulations that seem silly or ineffectively administered, and could give plenty more examples. If a thread were started to Pit some unnecessary regulation or corrupt law administration, **emacknight** and I would be likely to be on the same side. Yet we draw wholly opposite conclusions. If I have a child or servant who’s not functioning effectively, I want to provide love, respect, and guidance for him, and to foster his well-being. **emacknight** , on the other hand, would starve the already undernourished servant, kick him in the ribs and head, and then ridicule him when, now crippled, he functions worse than ever. Let’s see if **emacknight** dares to answer the following question, which savvy Libertarians are careful to duck: Was the 2007-2008 credit crisis caused by too little regulation of financial markets, or too much? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/245 "2011-06-06T14:03:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yet we draw wholly opposite conclusions. If I have a child or servant who’s not functioning effectively, I want to provide love, respect, and guidance for him, and to foster his well-being. **emacknight** , on the other hand, would starve the already undernourished servant, kick him in the ribs and head, and then ridicule him when, now crippled, he functions worse than ever. Well, obviously. You can get another servant that will perform better for the same money. Really, though, the smarter thing would be for you to put them both in a room and get them to bid against each other to see who would do it for the least money. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/246 "2011-06-16T21:41:50Z")
There was one Libertarian at SDMB who seemed to have at least a vague grasp of economics (though he delights in false or misleading statistics, fallacies and strawmen) but then I saw this: > [@Libertarian Mythology](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarian-mythology/583327/199): > > > [@](#): > > > > How about a simple regulation that mandated a 20% minimum deposit before a mortgage could be OK’d?.. > > Hey, and why not make it 100%? Then you’re absolutely guaranteed to never have a mortgage default, because no one would have mortgages. I called attention to this in another thread, but was then promptly insulted by one of the stupider Libertarians. I thought I should call attention to it here, so we can all laugh at Mr. Stone. I’m sure rationalists grasp the inanity of Mr. Stone’s comment at once, but I’ll extend the “reasoning” so it will be clear to any Libertarians who visit the thread. Libertarian: Speed limits are bad. Let the free market and individual choices determine car speeds. Rationalist: Perhaps a ceiling of 70 or 80 mph would be good. Libertarian Stone: Hey, and why not make it 15 mph? Or better 0 mph, then there’d be no accidents at all. Rationalist: The requirement that banks retain 10% of deposited money seems like a good regulation. Libertarian Stone: Hey, and why not make it 100%? Then you’re guaranteed the banks aren’t making any loans, bad or otherwise. We could go on with more parodies of Stone’s “thinking”, but what’s the point? Stone won’t admit how inane his comment was; if he shows up at all it will be to announce that he won’t debate with us until we watch the 12-hour video by Lord Milton. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/247 "2011-06-16T22:47:56Z")
I rise to remind that the man has his moments. A pity they are but moments, but he has them, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/248 "2011-06-17T00:30:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I rise to remind that the man has his moments. A pity they are but moments, but he has them, nonetheless. He has moments because he’s not stupid. He’s delusional. His intelligence only works to come up with ass-backward rationalizations for his fictional take on economics. Sad, really. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533/249 "2011-06-17T13:39:11Z")
The dude’s damn near infallible in music threads. And technologically rational, where this doesn’t intersect with politics. Damn shame about that chronic libertarianism. It’s a cruel condition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-libertarians-who-dont-even-know-the-implications-of-their-philosophy/583533.md?page=12)