# I Pit Magiver **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851 "2021-03-13T21:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/21 "2021-03-19T18:40:38Z")
So, partly the problem is stupidity, right? There’s a hijack of the Astra Zeneca in the US thread happening based on an apparent total failure to understand that safety decisions about vaccines, and how it is determined that something is a side effect of a vaccine, is by statistical analysis of the data. He seems to think the way it should be determined is by just examining people. Like you can only tell if a clot was caused by the vaccine by examining the patient. It seems pointless to keep trying to explain. I hope people stop trying. (I’m done trying.) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/22 "2021-03-19T18:59:14Z")
Yeah, when I saw those posts by him, I just rolled my eyes and moved on. That’s some high-quality idiocy right there, with no engagement with the really excellent other posts in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/23 "2021-03-19T19:25:36Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I’m done trying.) I tried once also. I have also given up trying because your efforts were so much better done. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/24 "2021-03-20T23:50:03Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The most tribal of right-wingers hang all their hopes on the decision to send COVID positive patients back to nursing homes I’ve tried to find whether someone’s ever given an alternative solution to what Cuomo did? I can’t find it anywhere. Hospitals were overrun. So, do they just pile them up in a truck out back and let them die? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/25 "2021-03-21T00:05:04Z")
Well, they were practically doing that in NY as well, I think. There were no good answers. It was horrific. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/26 "2021-03-21T04:04:14Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > I’ve tried to find whether someone’s ever given an alternative solution to what Cuomo did? I think we’re into “the coverup is worse than the crime” territory. He would have taken a hit announcing “things are really fucked, this bad option is the best one I see”, but long-term he probably would have been better off (until the assault allegations started surfacing). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/27 "2021-03-21T12:09:26Z")
No question. The right has been pushing the nursing home story since at least the summer, and it didn’t make a dent in his reputation. Once it turned out he lied about how many nursing home deaths there were, probably to protect his book prospects, things started going south. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/28 "2021-03-21T12:25:24Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > I’ve tried to find whether someone’s ever given an alternative solution to what Cuomo did? Magiver did! It involved round the clock helicopter evacuation of the, formerly, infected to hospitals all over the tri-state area. Sadly, he didn’t get to detail his full Covid plan with it’s paratroop doctors on mini-motorcycles and the air dropping of thousands of gallons of hand sanitizer on NY. (Come to think of it, all of Magiver’s brilliant solutions seem to involve aircraft . . . I wonder why…) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/29 "2021-03-21T13:26:03Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > (Come to think of it, all of Magiver’s brilliant solutions seem to involve aircraft . . . I wonder why…) - Everything goes over his head? ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/30 "2021-03-21T14:14:48Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Well, they were practically doing that in NY as well, I think. There were no good answers. It was horrific. Exactly. The only thing I could think of is if the Feds moved in quickly to help. They eventually parked a battleship in port but had so many restrictions that it really didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/31 "2021-03-21T14:17:16Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I think we’re into “the coverup is worse than the crime” territory. He would have taken a hit announcing “things are really fucked, this bad option is the best one I see”, but long-term he probably would have been better off (until the assault allegations started surfacing). I agree. And as @RitterSport states, only the rightwing would have paid any attention. But trying to cover it up. That’s serious. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/32 "2021-03-21T14:21:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > It involved round the clock helicopter evacuation of the, formerly, infected to hospitals all over the tri-state area. Yes, because that’ll keep Covid contained. BTW, I got this dude on ignore because he gunked-up the covid threads. Looks like he’s over there again too. I have no idea what the conversation is anymore because 1) I have him on ignore and 2) I lose interest in threads where people have to explain basics to @SayTwo wannabe’s over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/33 "2021-03-21T14:54:31Z")
Man, you’re not missing much. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Everything goes over his head? Hahaha! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/34 "2021-03-21T17:46:25Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > Exactly. The only thing I could think of is if the Feds moved in quickly to help. They eventually parked a battleship in port but had so many restrictions that it really didn’t help. [nitpick] It was a [hospital ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Comfort_(T-AH-20)#New_York_COVID-19_response_(2020)). [/n] > On 21 April, Governor Cuomo told President Trump that the ship was no longer needed in New York. It departed on 30 April, having treated 179 patients.[[34]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Comfort_(T-AH-20)#cite_note-34) So, it was about as useful as a battleship would have been. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/35 "2021-03-24T18:30:48Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > **Scylla** socks No way is either Scylla. He fancied himself a funny story teller, and for some reason a lot of Dopers believed, or pretended to believe, them. The worst one was when he said he waterboarded himself to see if it was torture. > [@eschrodinger](#): > > It seems pointless to keep trying to explain. I hope people stop trying More people should take this advice. Best option is to not engage him at all but, the Dope being the Dope, that is never going to happen. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Everything goes over his head? I repeatedly hit the like button. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/36 "2021-03-24T21:36:11Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > [Scylla] fancied himself a funny story teller, and for some reason a lot of Dopers believed, or pretended to believe, them. If that also alludes to his far-right chicken fucking - got it. If not, then, yeah - his storytelling side I couldn’t give one whit about (and completely irrelevant to my beef) - it’s the IMO Magiver-like doublng down on too much water-carrying for Trump & co. is what I was focussing on. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/37 "2021-03-25T00:26:40Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@eschrodinger](#): > > > > It seems pointless to keep trying to explain. I hope people stop trying > > More people should take this advice. Best option is to not engage him at all but, the Dope being the Dope, that is never going to happen. I’m personally trying to maintain a distinction between debunking and engaging. I do think it’s sometimes useful to explain things, even if I don’t think the poster I’m replying to will get it. With trolls, I also do a thing where I start talking about them but not to them. It seems to accomplish my desired goal fairly often. I don’t use this strategy here outside the Pit, though. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/38 "2021-03-25T00:32:42Z")
Yeah, if I think it will still be useful to other people, I will still explain/debunk. What I was talking about in that quote was just so nonsensical that I didn’t think there was any danger that other people would need any further explanation of why it was bunk. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/39 "2021-03-25T06:30:25Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Yeah, if I think it will still be useful to other people, I will still explain/debunk. What I was talking about in that quote was just so nonsensical that I didn’t think there was any danger that other people would need any further explanation of why it was bunk. Sorry, I didn’t mean to make your quote say something you didn’t intend. I really think the debunk thing is overdone also. Once one person shows the other person was wrong, it does no good for 47 other people to chime in and say the same thing. As for debunking it for other people, I don’t think it’s necessary for most things, the vast majority of Dopers are pretty much on the same page on major issues. > [@BigT](#): > > I’m personally trying to maintain a distinction between debunking and engaging. I do think it’s sometimes useful to explain things, even if I don’t think the poster I’m replying to will get it. Debunking is engaging. You are not going to convince someone like **Magiver** that he is wrong on something. It’s just not going to happen. Way too many people here tried for 20 years to get regards or paper towel guy, or now, many armed guy guy to admit error. Never happened, did it? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851/40 "2021-03-25T06:54:47Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Debunking is engaging. You are not going to convince someone like **Magiver** that he is wrong on something. It’s just not going to happen. Way too many people here tried for 20 years to get regards or paper towel guy, or now, many armed guy guy to admit error. Never happened, did it? You missed my point. What I’m calling a debunking is when I explain why something is wrong with no intention of the other person listening to me. I know they won’t listen, but that’s not why I’m posting. I know some people find it silly, but I actually joined this board for the “fighting ignorance” slogan. I at one point wanted to be a teacher. I love to learn, and I love to tell others what I’ve learned. I do expect some people are too stubborn to listen. But I hope there are others who at least consider what I say. And, hey, if they can prove me wrong, that’s even better, as it means I learned something new. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-magiver/937851.md?page=3)