# I pit male rapist apologists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2026, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569 "2026-10-03T23:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/61 "2026-10-05T00:00:17Z")
7 guys raping a drugged girl, and inviting others to partake is well beyond the pale, though. That’s not some autistic horny guy not reading signals well. That’s a lack of even caring if she might have any agency. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/62 "2026-10-05T00:06:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The problem is that since the campus police work for the campus administration, they may see their job, to a certain extent, as being about making sure things don’t happen that cause problems for the administration. As I said above, I worked in campus security alongside the campus police. In the three years I worked there, I saw no indication at all that people were attempting to downplay crimes. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > And there are school, especially private schools, where no such arrangement and the campus falls under the jurisdiction of the town, lock,stock and barrel. The question about trying to file a report with another jurisdiction then would not apply in these cases. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/63 "2026-10-05T00:17:46Z")
And it’s definitely good to advise folks to report crimes to the actual police, whoever they are, not just to security. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/64 "2026-10-05T00:29:36Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Something I really enjoy doing is going out by myself from time to time, either to a coffee place, a bar, or a restaurant, just to kill an hour or so with a book. I can do that and nobody will bug me, however, in my imaginary scenario if I was at all attractive to that other population, I would be constantly being hit on. Another issue is, or was, a stigma against females dining out alone. I don’t know if this is still the case, as I never eat out by myself now - I’m always with at least one other person. But back in the 1980s, I had a job that involved traveling all over the country, and I usually had to stay 1-2 nights in a hotel somewhere. So I ate dinner at restaurants by myself a lot. There was clearly a degree of discomfort among wait staff, though most were gracious enough to try not to act too surprised. But I’ll always remember the host at some pizza joint - a young man - who, when I said “just one person,” blurted “what? You’re eating ALONE?” On the book front, I was approached by a guy once when I had just started reading _Mrs. Dalloway_. He seemed genuinely excited that I was reading the book, which he said he just loved, and asked me what I thought of it. Alas, I was on page 2, so I had no idea, and told him so. Nor did I encourage further conversation, as I wasn’t looking for a relationship. But I’ve often thought that he probably was a pretty cool guy. SORRY - that’s a hijack. I’ll stop now. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/65 "2026-10-05T02:35:07Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Other universities could be different. I do wonder how much YMMV. I didn’t check every school I attended or worked at, but of the three I did check, one doesn’t have police, the second does and they are badged as part of the city department, and the third does and they have “primary jurisdiction” on campus and actually in some surrounding areas too. What I don’t know is if someone went to the city police whether they’d get referred to the school police. At the second school, there were stories about the school police sweeping a professor’s drunk driving crashes under the rug. Not that I can verify. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/66 "2026-10-05T03:47:03Z")
I am NOT defending campus (or any) police involved in this or any other sexual violence incident. Do not take what I’m saying that way. What happened clearly shows that the system failed the victim. When talking about “reporting to the city police” everyone needs to remember that the whole reason that sexual violence investigations and disciplines were brought internal to universities in the first place was because of the horrible mishandling of these cases by city police forces\[1\]. There’s no such thing as university prison, so punishment is limited to some type of sensitivity training, suspension, and expulsion. In the 50-70 years or whatever since universities have been trying to handle sexual assaults themselves, things have gotten better in municipal police departments, but we all know that it is still really bad. Backlogs of rape kits, boys-being-boys, victim blaming, and all the other stuff still happens. There is also the Clery Act, which requires universities to make available daily crime logs, report crime statistics annually, and sometimes to report incidents immediately. There can always be cover-ups, but there still should be a public record that a sexual assault was reported, even if the investigation goes nowhere. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > setting up an enclave within a city where the city police do not have jurisdiction At the large state universities I’m familiar with there is joint jurisdiction. City police can operate on campus, and campus police (not security guards) can operate in the city. They each have their own area of responsibility, but when the library gets a bomb threat, the city police are going to come help out, and when there is an out of control student party off campus, the campus police are going to show up. * * * 1. what were you wearing, why did you lead him on, you knew what kind of party it was, etc. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/67 "2026-10-05T04:20:15Z")
I always thought that campus police were more for things like public littering, illegal parking, or dealing with a neighbor in the dorm who refuses to turn their music down, NOT arresting and prosecuting violent criminals. In other words, they would be more like security guards. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/68 "2026-10-05T05:28:55Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Another issue is, or was, a stigma against females dining out alone. I don’t know if this is still the case, as I never eat out by myself now - I’m always with at least one other person. But back in the 1980s, I had a job that involved traveling all over the country, and I usually had to stay 1-2 nights in a hotel somewhere. So I ate dinner at restaurants by myself a lot. > > There was clearly a degree of discomfort among wait staff, though most were gracious enough to try not to act too surprised. But I’ll always remember the host at some pizza joint - a young man - who, when I said “just one person,” blurted “what? You’re eating ALONE?” I eat out by myself when i travel for business. Maybe i just haven’t noticed, but I’ve never had any problem doing it. Except that i find it a little lonely. I prefer to eat with other people. But i bring an ebook, and it’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/69 "2026-10-05T07:41:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve never had any problem doing it. That’s good to hear. Maybe things have changed (I hope so) since when I often did it 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/70 "2026-10-05T11:23:53Z")
In 2017, there was the case of what wiki calls the University of Utah Hospital incident, in which a SLC police officer arrested the on-duty nurse at the University Hospital. The nurse had refused a request for a blood draw from an unconscious patient because it went against the agreement the hospital had with SLCPD on when the hospital would allow that procedure. The U of U campus police were present and has normally had primary jurisdiction over the hospital, but deferred to SLCPD because the case concerned an accident SLCPD was investigating. Hospital security (also a separate entity) was there just as bystanders. There are problems with some private universities having police departments. BYU, the university run by the Mormon Church also has a police department with full police powers. There were problems before because as a private entity, they claimed they didn’t need to comply with the state’s open records laws. That has changed now, although they got around some things by separating their police and security departments and they claim that the security departments don’t have to comply with the open records law. There have been problems because the BYU police were improperly sharing police reports with the local LDS leaders. Under the BYU honor code, men and women cannot be in each other’s residences after hours, and can’t drink alcohol. There were cases of women being date raped, and then the police leaking the reports to the Mormon leaders. > [@Ruken](#): > > . . . third does and they have “primary jurisdiction” on campus and actually in some surrounding areas too. At my university, it was pretty similar, but the city police often handled the frats and sororities, which were right off campus. Iin Utah, any law enforcement officer has police powers statewide, but they have designated areas where they have primary responsibility and they have agreements on when they can help each other. If a city police officer witnesses a crime on campus, then they can arrest the suspect, but they weren’t patrolling campus. Back in my days, it was easy because there weren’t cell phones and and 911 calls from within the boundaries of campus were routed to our dispatcher. > [@Ruken](#): > > At the second school, there were stories about the school police sweeping a professor’s drunk driving crashes under the rug. Not that I can verify. That happened with city police and sheriff departments as well, but recently body cams have really changed it. I sometimes watch that on YouTube and you see drunk off-duty police officers or other connected people trying to get out of DUIs, and the investigating officer tells them that the game has changed and they can’t do that anymore. > [@echoreply](#): > > There’s no such thing as university prison, so punishment is limited to some type of sensitivity training, suspension, and expulsion. No. Campus police take people to county jails all the time, and refer cases to the relevant prosecutors. Salt Lake City doesn’t have its own jail, either. I was involved in a number of incidents where I witnessed a DUI, trespassing or other crimes. I called dispatch and the officer or officers came. The suspects were arrested by the campus police and taken to the Salt Lake County jail. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I always thought that campus police were more for things like public littering, illegal parking, or dealing with a neighbor in the dorm who refuses to turn their music down, NOT arresting and prosecuting violent criminals. In other words, they would be more like security guards. They can very much arrest arrest violent criminals. Note that prosecution isn’t done by the police in any case. Most of the crimes were minor, but there were some more serious ones that I saw. Like most small departments, the detectives didn’t have as much experience so an outside agency would likely get called on for something complex like a murder case. From the UUPD website: > The University of Utah Police Investigations division is led by a lieutenant, a detective sergeant and a team of detectives who focus on investigating and resolving crimes, such as burglaries and theft, fraud, trespassing, sexual assaults, domestic violence, and more. > > U Police detectives have a vast array of law enforcement experience and specialize in areas such as interpersonal violence crimes, technology-related crimes, and working in a healthcare setting. In addition to their law enforcement experience, our detectives have certifications in Trauma-informed Interviewing, interview and interrogation, search warrant/subpoena writing, and forensic analysis of electronic devices. > > Detectives routinely collaborate with the Crime Victim Advocates, campus partners, and other local and state law enforcement agencies. Criminal cases investigated by the unit are forwarded to the State of Utah District Attorney’s Office or the Salt Lake City Attorney’s Office for review and formal filing of appropriate charges. We also had a parking enforcement department who handled most of the illegal parking, although my department, campus security, handled illegal parking at the dorms after hours. (There was one woman who apparently believed parking tickets didn’t affect her, and consistantly parked in the fire truck zone. She had a ton of them that she needed to clear up before she could get her transcripts released.) However, there are a variety of arrangements for different schools, including those where there aren’t isn’t a campus police and only security. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/71 "2026-10-05T12:30:17Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > At worst, campus police departments might be more interested in sweeping things under the rug to avoid embarrassment to the college/university than they are to capturing and prosecuting criminals. It is my impression that campus police are like corporate HR; it’s their job to protect the institution over the people. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/72 "2026-10-05T12:39:17Z")
Well it seems like, regarding campus police, I committed the sin of opining on things I really didn’t know anything about. Having said that, I still seem to read/hear news about how the male suspects don’t seem to be dealt with as they would outside of university, and the Cornell essay thing seems exemplary of that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/73 "2026-10-05T12:40:49Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > It is my impression that campus police are like corporate HR; it’s their job to protect the institution over the people. Eh, I’ve chatted with campus police, and in my limited experience, they take their job of protecting students seriously. Again, as a college phys ed instructor, if someone is hurt, my training is to call campus police and then call 911, “because campus police will usually arrive faster”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/74 "2026-10-05T12:41:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But a campus security service and a campus police force are not the same thing. They are in the sense that they are paid for by, and therefore serve, the University. The land and building for the police station, the money to pay the officers dedicated to the area, and all their equipment, come from the institution, via the State or County, but nobody is unaware the budget for raises and force increases (or RIFs) comes from the institution. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/75 "2026-10-05T12:42:54Z")
Also, I’m sure campus police departments vary. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/76 "2026-10-05T12:46:50Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > if a private corporation decided to set up such a thing, I couldn’t see society, or the employees, tolerating it. The US Postal Service is actually a Corporation (run by Government, but not funded by it) which has its own police force. Most people don’t know, or pay any attention to it. But they are run by the Executive Branch of the government. and to those in the know, they are the most feared in terms of being the most effective law enforcement entity. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/77 "2026-10-05T12:56:44Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > to those in the know, they are the most feared in terms of being the most effective law enforcement entity Sadly, or otherwise, I can’t think of that without thinking of Seinfeld and Newman. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/78 "2026-10-05T13:03:42Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Even then, despite the fact that she was a strong-willed young woman, I still “made the move” without really considering her feelings. Well, if she had balked at that, all you had to do was stop, and you’d be fine. You did nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/79 "2026-10-05T13:21:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And if your partner says, “sure”, when you invite with, “do you wanna make out?”, you can put your hand under your partner’s clothing and see how they respond to it. If they lean in, make encouraging noises, and explore your body with their hands, they are consenting. If they freeze, or pull back, they aren’t. I think this is exactly right. In most instances, for most people, it is not that hard to determine whether the other person is a willing consenting partner to the encounter without having to ask for permission for every action you want to take. The OP asks whether a “is this okay” such a bad thing. I would say it’s never a bad thing, and if there is any doubt, then sure ask. But it is not something that should be required or even necessary in most consensual sexual encounters. The facts are fairly light on exactly what happened in the Cornell case. Whether what happened legally constitutes rape under state law is almost beside the point though. What these guys did was morally and ethically abhorrent, whether or not they are legally guilty of rape. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569/80 "2026-10-05T14:12:12Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > The OP asks whether a “is this okay” such a bad thing. I would say it’s never a bad thing, and if there is any doubt, then sure ask. But it is not something that should be required or even necessary in most consensual sexual encounters. > > The facts are fairly light on exactly what happened in the Cornell case Just to clarify, though I’ve mentioned the “is this okay” a few times, I definitely don’t relate that to drunken gang rape situations but, rather, as a starting point of respect for others at the opposite end of a spectrum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-male-rapist-apologists/1033569.md?page=5)