# I Pit Martin Hyde **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407 "2021-06-16T16:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/1 "2021-06-16T16:18:26Z")
Martin Hyde- Sheep Slapper I’m just sorry I didn’t come up with it myself. 🤣 > [@How is genocide defined, with an emphasis on cultural genocide?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/112): > > No one was making excuses or making a big deal other than people like Lance\_Turbo et al. This is a discussion forum, I was discussing something. However, one reason I frequently have taken long sabbaticals from these forums is it’s a den of mentally ill leftists, always has been, always will be. Most are simply bleating, stupid sheep. I try to find discussions with those who are not, but the bleating of the sheep sometime force their way in–it is much worse in the Pit than in other, moderated forums where the bleats are kept under better control. In this environment if you don’t always bleat with the other sheep with exact same pitch and tone, the wagons are drawn into a circle, the pitchforks are readied, and the torches are lit. That’s all that happened here. Someone who never denied any sort of genocide, and who made a fairly unambiguous and factual statement, was targetted for “wrongthink” by a bunch of bitchy little leftist sheep. But unlike most of the conservative posters that left the forums over the years because they couldn’t take the bleating, when I’m posting here, I’m happy to slap back at the sheep as needed. It’s nice to know what he really thinks about us, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/2 "2021-06-16T16:20:54Z")
Feels good seeing a disgraced former mod (the worst this forum ever had) posting stupid pit threads about oneself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/3 "2021-06-16T16:22:23Z")
Holey crap, you’re bad at this! The best you’ve got is "No-_you!"_? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/4 "2021-06-16T16:42:13Z")
I mean, I’m not particularly on @Martin_Hyde’s side in general political terms, but the consistent misinterpretation of his posts in the cultural genocide thread is pretty terrible. He makes various factually correct statements about the residential school system (and admittedly a few statements applicable to the similar US systems that aren’t applicable to the Canadian systems) with the intent of clarifying the factual record and he’s piled upon for minimizing genocide. I didn’t see any intent to minimize at all, merely an intent to provide context. Context is, after all, important, even critical if we’re to understand history and avoid repeating it. I can well understand that he’d get a tad pissy about being misinterpreted even after repeatedly re-explaining himself. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/5 "2021-06-16T16:44:13Z")
Is it a factually correct statement that the Nazis didn’t kill _all_ the Jews? Would that statement be “piled on” if it came up in a thread about the Holocaust? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/6 "2021-06-16T16:44:34Z")
> [@How is genocide defined, with an emphasis on cultural genocide?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/112): > > However, one reason I frequently have taken long sabbaticals from these forums is it’s a den of mentally ill leftists, always has been, always will be. Most are simply bleating, stupid sheep. It is this bit that reveals how he feels about this board that intrigues me. Oh, and the posts in that thread where he claims that if you don’t answer a particular question you are openly admitting that you are a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/7 "2021-06-16T16:47:37Z")
That would depend on the reason the post was made, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/8 "2021-06-16T16:59:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Oh, and the posts in that thread where he claims that if you don’t answer a particular question you are openly admitting that you are a liar. That question being, “Show me where I said the things you’re claiming I said.” Which, if folks can’t answer that… yeah, “Then you’re a liar” seems an appropriate response. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/9 "2021-06-16T17:14:29Z")
He didn’t say that. He said that it was worth noting that the forcible family separations engendered by the residential schools weren’t permanent. Look, it’s bloody important to understand that the architects of the residential school system had, in some cases (though not all), what they themselves understood to be good intentions, because it’s bloody important to understand that evil things are done by people who see themselves, and are seen by many of those around them, as good people. Evil things aren’t just done by people of are caricatures of evil cartoons. It’s important because _ **we ourselves** _ are prone to doing evil things out of good intentions. Hitler’s willing executioners were not drawn from a population more prone to doing evil than any other population, including the current populations of Canada and the US. Understanding how people’s conceptions of public good, etc, can lead to horrible, horrible things being done is vitally important. It does history a disservice to paint Macdonald and Ryerson and the rest as unambiguously evil, because doing so is lying to ourselves about the likelihood of doing evil ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/10 "2021-06-16T17:14:31Z")
It’s a bit like the whole scientific racism thing. They just make “factual statements” and let you draw your own conclusions. If you call them out for racism, they demand to know where they called someone a n-word or take it back. I don’t understand the point of his participation in that thread if not to interject “factual statements” that minimize and justify the actions taken by Canada (and tangentially the US). Well, I guess he admitted the point later, in that he likes to “slap sheep”. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/11 "2021-06-16T17:18:37Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > He makes various factually correct statements about the residential school system (and admittedly a few statements applicable to the similar US systems that aren’t applicable to the Canadian systems) with the intent of clarifying the factual record and he’s piled upon for minimizing genocide. It all started with this factually **incorrect** statement about Canadian residential schools. > [@I pit DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/981): > > Under the formal international law definition of genocide no, this sort of thing doesn’t quite fit. His insistence that Canada’s treatment of the First Nations doesn’t satisfy the UN definition of genocide, when it unambiguously does, is very straightforward genocide denial. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/12 "2021-06-16T17:20:08Z")
Dude, that’s a different person. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/13 "2021-06-16T17:20:44Z")
Dude, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/14 "2021-06-16T17:21:32Z")
I’m wrong that @Martin_Hyde is not the same person as @DrDeth? Have you reported this sockpuppetry to the mods? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/15 "2021-06-16T17:21:40Z")
This place is turning into a dude ranch. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/16 "2021-06-16T17:22:17Z")
I appreciate you pointing out the actual factual happenings in that thread, but my advice is to not bother. The people you are talking to have repeatedly lied about what I said, when I demanded them to provide evidence for lies they just insulted and lied more. They are dishonest individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/17 "2021-06-16T17:22:56Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I’m wrong that @Martin_Hyde is not the same person as @DrDeth? The quoted post is a @Martin_Hyde post in a thread that has @DrDeth’s name in the thread title. Fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/18 "2021-06-16T17:24:44Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > He said that it was worth noting that the forcible family separations engendered by the residential schools weren’t permanent. Right, he said it was worth minimizing the actions taken. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > what they themselves understood to be good intentions, because it’s bloody important to understand that evil things are done by people who see themselves, and are seen by many of those around them, as good people. Right, their intention was to remove the native from the person. Their intention was to make them stop being “wrong” and start being “right”. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Evil things aren’t just done by people of are caricatures of evil cartoons. It’s important because _ **we ourselves** _ are prone to doing evil things out of good intentions. Yes, it is important to realize that. As justifications like his allow us to justify evil actions of our own. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > It does history a disservice to paint Macdonald and Ryerson and the rest as unambiguously evil, because doing so is lying to ourselves about the likelihood of doing evil ourselves. No one has done so. I could play @Martin_Hyde’s game and demand that you show where I did so or admit that you are a liar, but I’m not here to slap sheep, but to participate in actual discussion. So I will instead explain that I agree that no one sees themself as evil, which is why it is all the more important for us to not minimize or justify it when we see it, or it becomes all the easier to justify it in ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/19 "2021-06-16T17:26:36Z")
Ah, my mistake for not clicking the link, although I guess the colour of the avatar might have clued me in. Anyways, my point about the difference between “minimizing” and “contextualizing” stands. I haven’t read Martin’s posts as doing the former. Again, insisting the players in this history be cartoon villains instead of complex but tragically flawed men is dangerous, because it tends to convince ourselves that we would never do those things. History says we would, and must be on guard that we do not. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/20 "2021-06-16T17:28:01Z")
From later in that same paragraph: > [@I pit DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/981): > > I would say that the situation described fits a definition of genocide that isn’t particularly unusual, but isn’t 100% as accepted as a genocide as say, the Holocaust or Japanese atrocities in Manchuria. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407.md?page=2)