# I Pit Martin Hyde **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407 "2021-06-16T16:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/141 "2021-06-19T21:11:42Z")
Keep on fucking that chicken, my dude. Your pathetic gotchas are making me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/142 "2021-06-19T21:31:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Logical fallacy? It’s what you are arguing. I believe what’s going on here is that I pointed out a clanger of a logical fallacy our friend made the other day, (Reductio ad absurdum) and he’s latched onto the phrase “logical fallacy” without actually understanding what it means. It goes along with his “no, YOU’RE the Hitler” methodology. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/143 "2021-06-19T21:32:05Z")
You’ve made… The List! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/144 "2021-06-19T21:40:16Z")
Yeah, not even Starving Artist was _this_ pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/145 "2021-06-19T21:42:00Z")
😀 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/146 "2021-06-19T21:43:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > Logical fallacy? It’s what you are arguing. > > I believe what’s going on here is that I pointed out a clanger of a logical fallacy our friend made the other day, (Reductio ad absurdum) and he’s latched onto the phrase “logical fallacy” without actually understanding what it means. > > It goes along with his “no, YOU’RE the Hitler” methodology. Reminder this is a person who still has provided no evidence for his claims that I ever denied any genocide. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/147 "2021-06-19T21:46:56Z")
Aww, I’m still living in his posts . . . rent free! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/148 "2021-06-19T22:05:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I actually haven’t seen much evidence the Germans did targeted sterilization of mass numbers of Jews. And from sort of a grim perspective, I’m not sure that’s surprising. The Germans sterilized people they didn’t want to pass on their genes, but that they otherwise were okay leaving alive. The Jews were not in that category after the “final solution” was implemented. It makes little sense to waste time and resources sterilizing people you’re shipping off to gas chambers. They certainly intended to. [http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph241/payzer2/](http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph241/payzer2/) > As Viktor Brack, head of Hitler’s Chancellery and a supporter of Nazi research into sterilization by radiation, reported to SS leader Heinrich Himmler in 1942, “Among 10 millions of Jews in Europe there are … millions … who are fit enough to work. These should be specially selected and preserved. This can, however, only be done if … they are rendered incapable to propagate.” But they found mass sterilization on the scale they preferred was too difficult. They experimented with drugs and X-rays but found that many didn’t survive the treatments, and they were killing people anyway. It’s not that they didn’t want to sterilize the Jewish people, it just ended up not being feasible. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/149 "2021-06-19T22:13:26Z")
And it’s not like you have to do more than watch _Conspiracy_ to at least have a clue about this. > **[Conspiracy (TV Movie 2001) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266425/)** > > Conspiracy: Directed by Frank Pierson. With Clare Bullus, Stanley Tucci, Simon Markey, David Glover. At the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, senior Nazi officials meet to determine the manner in which the so-called "Final Solution to the... ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/150 "2021-06-19T22:16:33Z")
Remember when I already posted that? > There was extensive German research into mass sterilization in the 1940s, specifically Himmler had a desire to at one point keep many of their slave laborers they were using around for the medium term. But they didn’t want them propagating, so it was seen as necessary to find a way to mass sterilize them. Jewish slave laborers were intended to be sterilized by these mass sterilization programs as well. The medical sterilizations the Germans performed against their people for “racial hygiene” used vasectomies and tubal ligations, which were considered to be too time consuming and expensive for mass use, for women especially that procedure regularly requires a few weeks recovery time in that era. > But the realities of the war overtook the Germans plans in this regard, and their mass sterilization stuff never got out of the experimental stage. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/151 "2021-06-19T22:30:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Remember when I already posted that? I wasn’t disagreeing with that. I was disagreeing with your assertion… > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The Germans sterilized people they didn’t want to pass on their genes, but that they otherwise were okay leaving alive. The Jews were not in that category after the “final solution” was implemented. It makes little sense to waste time and resources sterilizing people you’re shipping off to gas chambers. They were okay leaving Jews alive to be slave labor, it just wasn’t feasible. So what you said above was incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/152 "2021-06-19T22:35:15Z")
Remember when the posters did not mention that not all jews were sterilized? ~~Pepperidge Farms remembers~~ the cite was about 400,000. And indeed, not all of them where jews. Martin is just complaining a lot. The point was that a number of Jews were also subject to forced sterilization. Before and after the final solution was implemented. The other point that was missed is that it was a bigger proportion of native Americans that had forced sterilizations. The end result was that many tribes were likely to face extintion if that had not ended. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/153 "2021-06-19T22:40:57Z")
Ah, I see what you mean–I agree what you said is correct there. My original comment was intended better to delineate that the German eugenics program was much more about keeping the German bloodline clean than it was about targeting Jews, which is fairly supported by the historical record. I would argue that the later mass sterilization experiments that the Germans hoped to pursue would have constituted an entirely different thing had it been implemented (and the German eugenics program by then was basically ended as they had started just sending the German “unworthy of life” to the camps as they considered that better than just sterilizing them.) But yes the way I phrased my original comment was not factually correct. I think rather the evidence would support that the Nazis made the decision that because of how the war was going it was better to ramp up the mass murder versus work more on sterilization. There’s decent evidence at least part of the ramp up in killing of Jews was a desire to get as many dead as possible because it was obvious the Germans were losing territory–they even arguably hurt their own war effort in the last year of the war by diverting resources to keeping the death camps running. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/154 "2021-06-19T22:58:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Reminder this is a person who still has provided no evidence for his claims that I ever denied any genocide. Oh, I’ve already said multiple times that you never actually _denied_ genocide against indigenous people. You just figured that we should finish the job properly and destroy their culture once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/155 "2021-06-19T23:02:10Z")
Like I said, it wasn’t that Hitler’s goals were bad it was his means that were the problem. And now I’ll go and throw up again… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/156 "2021-06-19T23:21:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > But yes the way I phrased my original comment was not factually correct. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/157 "2021-06-19T23:59:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Remember when the posters did not mention that not all jews were sterilized? Correction: That should be: Remember when the posters did not mention that all Jews were sterilized? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/158 "2021-06-20T17:26:07Z")
Still no link to me calling you a Nazi, @Martin_Hyde ? What a lying little baby - whining about favouritism in ATMB, but too craven to back anything up. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/159 "2021-06-20T19:52:55Z")
I mean this isn’t a genuine question as you know exactly where this occurred. But for anyone else: > [@How is genocide defined, with an emphasis on cultural genocide?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/230): > > “Lots of people were shot in WWII, stop going on and on about Einsatzgruppen” Casually linking someone’s statements, barring any logical or factual justification, to Nazi death squads, is reprehensible behavior. Which is not uncommon for you. I’m not a psychologist but you have lots of issues. I’m not sure if it’s anger because you’re sad that you live in one of the worst countries on earth and that gives you an inferiority complex when talking with Americans. It may be that you, yourself are deeply racist. I’m not honestly sure. I imagine you feel a lot of anger about the period of white rule in your country, and while you hide it on these boards you may have festering hatred in your heart for white people. I really don’t know. But I know something isn’t right, when you can’t discuss things rationally or intelligently, which is a pervasive problem of yours, obviously a defect in the mind is to blame. When you allege essentially everyone you disagree with is racist, it seems likely to me that you are compensating for deeply held racist views of your own that you probably feel a lot of shame over. I hope you get help–you need it. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407/160 "2021-06-20T19:58:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I hope you get help–you need it. Go fuck yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-martin-hyde/944407.md?page=9)