I Pit me over Sarah Palin

*COURIC (to Palin): Do you think there’s an inherent right to privacy in the Constitution?

PALIN: I do. Yeah, I do.*

I suppose you could parse her words and try and pretend that she MEANT individual State Constitutions or that the “right to privacy” is inherent, but not “defined” in the Constitution. But, if you buy your own “theory” of constitutional interpretation, she WAS flat out wrong.

Yes, if you believe, as you do, all that crap you say, she was wrong to say there is an inherent right to privacy in the Constitution (unless you want to parse her words beyond all recognition).

But if, like me, you disagree with Bricker on the issue, then yes, she was right.

How weird that Palin and I agree on that AND that man contributes to global warming. Maybe she doesn’t actually toe the Conservative lines.

Bricker for President!:cool:

She was asked whether there was an inherrent right to privacy in the US CONSTITION! For fuck’s sake, read or watch the interview before dazzling us with your bright legal mind (read: no one gives a shit what your answer would have been - you’re not on the ticket). Goddamn, does it bother you in the least to be so fucking wrong in your defense of this poseur? Does it every get tiring jerking off to your image as board law prof.? How does that pay?

Do you honestly think Stewart didn’t pick a particular set of clips to maximize the entertainment/trainwreck effect?

Amount of contributions Bricker has made here as a “board netizen”= zillions.
Amount you have made= none.

Bricker helps people here and gives good solid posts with cites. You are a waste of the hampster’s energy.

I am almost 41 and will admit to using “like” in the inappropriate teenage way; however, I’ll be goddamned if a potential VP should use it…AND talk like Marge from Fargo. No matter what comes out of her mouth (in the rare event that it makes sense) it sounds hokey. I’m like ok, you betcha’!

Bricker is standing on his head trying to defend her. He is reading a depth of understanding in her answer that was not there, This answer does not exist by itself. She has clearly shown who she is, if you really listen.

I think RNATB hit it on the nose:

She has, I think, a very surface-level understanding of federalism that amounts to, “Federalism bad when it conflicts with what I want, and good when it doesn’t.”

It’s absolutely fair to condemn her for that – but in point of fact, she’s hardly the only politician that discovers a deep love for states’ powers when the issue is to their liking. In both the assisted suicide and medical marijuana debates, we’ve seen left-leaning folk argue for states rights and right-leaning folks develop convenient deafness on the subject.

THe difference is that at least those folks can (mostly) argue better than she seemed to.

I watched the clip.

And you’re right – the question was about the US Constitution.

But on these very boards, the distinction between federal and state powers is routinely blurred, and more than once, I’ve been called overly-lawyerly or nitpicky for pointing it out. (Not by you, I grant, but by… you know… more excitable, irrational people). So it’s a tad amusing now to see this very strict insistance on understanding.

But when you’re right, you’re right. The question did involve federal Constitutional guarantees, and either she didn’t understand that, or she failed to explain the principled distinction upon which she rests her acceptance of that right but her rejection of Roe’s abortion rules.

Like many people, I suspect she simply hasn’t studied the issue with any sort of legal framework. She starts with a position: Abortion Bad. Then she claims that she favors whatever the legal reasoning is that gets us there.

She’s by no means the only person that does this. The entire holding of Roe is an exercise in exactly that type of logic (starting, obviously, with: Abortion Is A Choice instead of Abortion Bad).

So tell me why it’s terrible when Palin does it, but perfectly OK when Blackmun did it? Is it simply because Blackmun, being about seventy times smarter on his worst day than Palin on her best day, knew how to dress up the pig better?

Well, you know, he’s a lawyer. Not that there’s anything wromg with that, or anything! Its just, well, you know…

Yippeee!!!

Let me be the first to thank you, Bricker. Over the last few years, your penchant for immediate and oftentimes unthinking defense of anything or anyone with a (R) behind their name has soured almost everything good I had ever thought about you. Let me congratulate you on turning that partisan corner and being able to, once again, offer a sense of objectivity and thoughtfulness.

Well, fuck.

That certainly didn’t last long.

Back to the same ol’ same ol’

You want some music for these mental gymnastics you must go through to defend her (or lacking that, simply smear Blackmun)?

We actually agree. There is a perfectly tenable, and to my mind actually correct, view that holds that there IS an inherent right to privacy protected by the Constitution, but recognizing that right does not mean Roe v. Wade was properly decided. Me and, apparently Palin, agree. As, apparently do you when you said she said nothing wrong. Now the only question is were YOU wrong when you stated that she said nothing wrong? Personally, in the spirit of bipartisanship, I will agree with you. Her view that there is an inherent right to privacy in the Constitution is not wrong. See? You and I can agree.

You can certainly believe that there’s a right to privacy (even a Constitutional right to privacy) and disagree with Roe v. Wade. Personally, I think the reasoning is strained at best.

For one, it seems unreasonable to me to think that a right to privacy that protects personal relationships, sexual activity, child-rearing, home security and personal effects, etc. would necessarily apply to abortion. The court holds that the state has a legitimate purpose in protecting the unborn, but, somehow, that purpose doesn’t apply for a few months, then applies only partly for a bit longer, then, finally, applies most strongly? The reasoning smacks of a politically-driven decision.

For the record, I’m opposed to all laws restricting abortion; I just don’t think the legal doubletalk in Roe v. Wade is the kind of thing we should approve of.

Also, on the subject of Sarah Palin: I’m annoyed at everyone who has mischaracterized her as being unable to name two Supreme Court cases. I’ve watched the interview, and it’s painful how she flails about. I’m not saying she gave a good answer. I’m just saying that “Name two court cases” is a much easier question than “name another court case that you disagree with.” Personally, I’m hard pressed to name many cases I disagree with, except for a few, like Bowers v Hardwick, or Plessy v Ferguson, which have already been overturned.

You seem to be overlooking the two cases in particular that have been mentioned in this thread, that she should be more than passingly familiar with; Exxon v Baker, which she, herself, spoke out against just a couple of months ago, and the case she spoke against in her Convention speech just a few weeks ago. Either one of those would’ve sufficed.

Calm down. He said we were right and gave his mea culpa. Plus, he’s absolutely right that we normally boo states’ rights but are eager to defend them when it comes to gay rights or decriminalization, among other things.

That’s a very good parallel to Roe v. Wade in that I, like iatw, am totally in favor of the result of Roe yet wholly disapproving of the tortured reasoning involved.

Well, sure, but did you give a speech in front of millions of people several weeks ago in which one of your money lines referred to a non-Roe Supreme Court decision that you purportedly disagreed with?

They have nothing in common.

You see, “Nobody Doesn’t Like Sara Lee.”

Irrelevant, unless you plan to claim that they photoshopped or otherwise manipulated the clips. They are clips of Sarah Palin being asked pretty darned straightfoward, non-gotcha questions by a national level columnist, and Palin’s response being a series of sentence fragments rehearsing remotely related talking points.

Sorry, Sinaijon. It doesn’t fly.

No, I don’t listen to or read pundits very often. What I originally did was look at what I thought the interview was on YouTube. An 8 minute interview. It looked okay, and I thought that was it. I didn’t check, and I pit myself for that. It must have been a best of clips put together by an admirer. Then somebody here offered a linky to another clip and I realized I hadn’t seen anywhere near the whole thing. I was not careful enough initially in trusting the YouTube clip. The Couric interview material I saw at length was every bit as horrible as the critics described. She was not nearly that bad earlier this evening, but still, it was a performance I could have bested with only a week’s preparation rather than 5 weeks, and it is generally agreed that I am an idiot.

Don’t be too hard on yourself, that’s our job.

That is begging the question. The constitution does not define any of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. The 3rd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 13th and 14th amendments make pretty damn clear that there are limits that the government has in knocking down people’s doors and coming into their private lives. I am unaware that the shorthand of the phrase “right to privacy” was even discussed in that fashion at the time of the framing. But limiting the government’s powers in these areas was.

States police powers were restricted by the 13th and 14th amendments, which by their specific language restricted the power of the state to invade the rights of individuals. A non-lawyer would read these amendments to wholly incorporate in one fell swoop all of the previous rights. However, the USSC has, following the doctrine of deciding only cases before it, only found the 13th and 14th amendments apply as issues were brought up in specific cases through a doctrine called “selective incorporation”. IIRC they have found incorporation for just about everything in the Bill of Rights, with minor exceptions.

In the late 18th century rights did not have to be specifically stated in constitutions or statutes, the “common law” was something that judges announced from the bench for juries to consider when they decided both law and facts. Today juries only decide facts and judges are expected to base their decisions on specific statutes and precedents in their jurisdiction and in the event that they don’t, they are excoriated for being judicial activists, despite the fact that they have the right to decide what the common law is in the absence of statute or binding precedent to the contrary.

The whole school of “original intent” is ahistorical, does not depend on legal or any other scholarship. If it did, the many opinions from the likes of Scalia would cite precedent and scholarly historical papers to show all sides of an issue. The “original intent” school has a right to argue that they are making up their law on the basis of “common law”, but they lack the intellectual honesty to do this, so they invent a whole fake school of “original intent” when in fact the founding fathers rarely agreed on anything but the basics in the Declaration and Constitution. Tellingly they did agree on the 9th amendment which left all undeclared rights to the people. Just as tellingly, once the government was founded and consolidating power, they pretended that the 9th amendment didn’t exist, thereby having the effect of removing many of the sovereign people’s rights. There was substantial debate over whether there should be a Bill of Rights and although the Anti-Federalists lost the debate over whether to ratify the constitution, they overwhelmingly won the debate that there should be a Bill of Rights and in fact won over important Federalists, such as Madison, on that issue. There was substantial debate on what the Bill of Rights amendments would be, and the issue of the people retaining all all rights not limited overwhelming won. (But I go on about my pet issue.)

In our time this is all about the abortion debate. Justice Blackmun wrote a telling history of abortion in the enormously long opinion of Roe v. Wade. Despite the ancients and founding fathers knowing full well what abortion was, they did not mention it at all in the biblical lists of sins, or in the laws of the land. It wasn’t until the late 19th century that US jurisdictions started outlawing it. However, because it was a right as the court declared in Roe v. Wade and reaffirmed many many times, it is a privacy right. It is valid and binding precedent. It would be an abandonment of the principles of stare decisis for the Supreme Court to overturn or eviscerate it on the basis of a change in Court membership as it now has a long history of being upheld. The only constitutional and jurisprudentially sound way to change it would be by constitutional amendment, which has been given very little effort by people who propose abortions be made illegal. Certainly they have legislators who could introduce suitable language, and for all I know they have. But if they have, it has never gotten (sorry) anywhere. I suppose it has never gotten anywhere because they don’t really care whether abortion is illegal, but they love to use it as a political whipping boy to rally the faithful and raise money.

Instead they invent this “original intent” school and form their Federalist Society and their adherents seem hell bent on removing the rights of people to abortion, free speech (locations, times etc.). I don’t want government stronger as against my rights, particularly my first amendment rights which are the ones I use. I want the government weaker in that area. And also weaker in the right to torture people and hold them without review, etc.