# I pit "men and women" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817 "2007-05-20T14:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/21 "2007-05-20T23:07:12Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Pit me the word ‘troops’ as a singular, i.e.: “4 troops missing in Dogcrapashire”. ‘Troops’ is a term used to describe a collective, like ‘congregation’ or ‘Congress’. If four soldiers are missing, say ‘four soldiers’. We would have also accepted ‘four troopers’, ‘four sailors’ or ‘four deeply fucked guys/dames’. [/QUOTE] Yesyesyesyesyes. I’m so sick of hearing about “3 troops are missing” “27 troops were injured” “1325345 troops are going to get fucked on leave time again” every time I run across the news. Troop is defined as a _group_ of soldiers. GROUP. Not individuals. Maybe I should just go by the major networks and slap their talking heads/copy writers with a dictionary. That might make me feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/22 "2007-05-21T00:07:47Z")
**Liberal** , you lazy thing! _People_ is two syllables long and is so cold. _Men and women_ adds only two more syllables – hardly a mouthful – and paints a clearer image in the mind. But I agree with you that politicians and commentators have begun to run the words together. So I suggest a change that will slow them down for a little while. How about _women and men_? There! I was able to solve the problem and utilize the “ladies first” tradition at the same time! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/23 "2007-05-21T00:14:45Z")
I had a co-worker describe helping a client as “efforting the resolution.” It’s a wonder my head didn’t explode. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/24 "2007-05-21T00:25:30Z")
“Male” and “Female” is judgemental. I propose “Masculine” and “Feminine.” Or just “Yang” and “Yin.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/25 "2007-05-21T00:30:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ukulele Ike] “Male” and “Female” is judgemental. I propose “Masculine” and “Feminine.” [/QUOTE] This MUST be a whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/26 "2007-05-21T01:09:55Z")
I’m just happy that they remember there are women in the armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/27 "2007-05-21T01:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux] “Utilize” ticks me off, too, but not as much as the use of “facilitate” instead of “help” or “aid.” [/QUOTE] Well, I have been facilitated, and I have to say, it wasn’t all that much help. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/28 "2007-05-21T01:33:14Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Well, I have been facilitated, and I have to say, it wasn’t all that much help. Tris [/QUOTE] Wel, I’ve been manipulated, _digitally_ manipulated, but it seemed about as analog as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/29 "2007-05-21T03:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] This reminds me of the British comedian Alexei Sayle, who said “Anyone who uses the word ‘workshop’ who isn’t connected with light engineering is a wanker.” [/QUOTE] Same goes for “Task Force”: Sergeant Fury And His Howling Commandos are a Task Force; what you are on is called a committee. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/30 "2007-05-21T04:54:29Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Howsabout we replace ‘men and women in uniform’ with _soldiers?_ What the hell was wrong with ‘soldiers’? [/QUOTE] Except to me, “soldiers” connotates the grunts with guns and camo on the field. The communications guys, the supply staff, the doctors, the mechanics… They don’t count as “soldiers” in my mind. Which is probably horribly ignorant of me, and offensive to those folks out there who supply the “real” soldiers with everything they need, but that’s my automatic notion. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/31 "2007-05-21T05:13:31Z")
Well, an army marches on its communications guys… or something. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/32 "2007-05-21T05:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] > [@Boyo Jim](#): > > Besides, “soldier” excludes. the Air Farce, Navy and Marines, not to mention the Coast Guard. And even some other more obscure uniforn services like US Public Health Officials. Well, fuck; now we have to worry about the PC language police in the armed forces? … [/QUOTE] How the fuck is it PC? I was under the impression that folks in the maritime uniformed services have always been called _sailors_,[soldier](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=soldier)[INDENT]1. One who serves in an army. 2. An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.[sailor](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sailor)1. One who serves in a navy or works on a ship. 2. a seaman below the rank of officer.[marine](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marine)1. A soldier serving on a ship or at a naval installation. 2. **Marine** A member of the U.S. Marine Corps.[/INDENT]and calling a Marine anything other than marine often results in pain :smack: . CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/33 "2007-05-21T07:39:30Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] But I agree with you that politicians and commentators have begun to run the words together. So I suggest a change that will slow them down for a little while. How about _women and men_? [/QUOTE] The way the 2008 campaign is already rolling, it’ll be no time at all before it’s _wimmenuhmen_. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/34 "2007-05-21T09:25:42Z")
I propose a much less ambiguous system. \*\*Women, non-women and others in uniform. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/35 "2007-05-21T09:45:13Z")
“Men and women” and “Women and men” are both subhumanly callous in their exclusion of the intersexed. Who even \*hears \* about the valiant efforts of hermaphrodites in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/36 "2007-05-21T11:52:15Z")
[QUOTE=Annie] Well, an army marches on its communications guys… or something. [/QUOTE] Ouch! That can’t be pleasant for the communications guys. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/37 "2007-05-21T15:17:26Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] 2. **Marine** A member of the U.S. Marine Corps.[/INDENT][/INDENT]and calling a Marine anything other than marine often results in pain :smack: . [/QUOTE] I note, though, that the definition of “marine” states it is merely a variety of “soldier.” I think it fair to include marines under the umbrella term of “soldier.” What if rangers and other specialized units also insisted on such linguistic exclusivity? The list would become burdensome. “Soldiers and sailors” is my limit. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/38 "2007-05-21T16:33:53Z")
It’s the impersonal sound of many of these terms that bothers me. When 12 American sons and daughters were fatally torn apart, and 23 more sons and daughters were permanently maimed or brain-damaged, some sharp-dressed TV anchor tells us that 12 US troops died and 23 more were wounded in a car bomb attack. They are more than just cannon fodder or toy soldiers. They’re your neighbors, or your neighbor’s kids. Maybe, they’re your kids. Call them sons and daughters. By the way, doesn’t the military call a spade an entrenching tool? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/39 "2007-05-21T16:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I note, though, that the definition of “marine” states it is merely a variety of “soldier.” I think it fair to include marines under the umbrella term of “soldier.” What if rangers and other specialized units also insisted on such linguistic exclusivity? The list would become burdensome. “Soldiers and sailors” is my limit. [/QUOTE] Thank you. Shit, I include a wink _and_ a Jean-Luc Picard quote and people still get whooshed? Untwist, panties, _untwist!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817/40 "2007-05-21T16:51:36Z")
But “women” is a sexist term, because the word, along with “woman,” by its very construction, implies that women are a subset of “men.” Trouble is, “womyn” is retarded. So how about “our fine young ballhangers and uterus containers in uniform”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-men-and-women/404817.md?page=3)