# I pit Microsoft **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116 "2014-11-20T00:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/1 "2014-11-20T00:17:58Z")
As I understand it, USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0 hardware. So why on earth does microsoft make sure that its xbox one controllers (that use a 3.0 slot) cannot be used on the xbox 360 (2.0) or vice versa? When Microsoft is part of the USB promoter group? When the controllers themselves are unchanged? I will tell you why on this blasted earth. It is to stop you saving money by using older controllers, so you have to buy the new ones. Even when the new ones are _exactly_ fucking alike the old with the same buttons in the same places doing the same things. These corporate troglodytes had only to sit by and tell the designers to use the USB system as it was designed. Instead they specifically went out of their way to stop that so they could squeeze some more dollars out of the same consumers that (get this) literally helped fund the new console by buying into the first. It is worth mentioning a new controller can be nearly $100 here. For a family of four that means four controllers are needed and that can really add up. So to Microsoft and all the other incorporated vampires around the world spinning around on office chairs all day long dreaming up ways to unnecessarily suck cash out of our necks, I say please go and die in a small uncomfortable hole. I say this as advice, because they may someday find a peaceful hole to die in preferable than being shoved against a wall with a blindfold on. When the world burns I will be waiting for them and their kind. [/rant] ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/2 "2014-11-20T00:49:41Z")
Definitely a case of putting corporate interests ahead of gamers’ interests. Xbox One could support wired Xbox 360 controllers if Microsoft were so inclined. How popular were wired controllers? I pretty much always see Xbox people with wireless ones and PC people with wired. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/3 "2014-11-20T01:08:32Z")
You understand incorrectly. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0 devices by design. USB 3.0 devices, however, are not necessarily backwards compatible with USB 2.0. And even with USB 2.0 devices on USB 3.0, you still need the drivers for the USB 2.0 device. There is no guarantee that, just because a device has a USB port, it can accept any USB device. Yes, Microsoft could have maintained backwards compatibility with 360 controllers. But nothing about the USB 3.0 specs require them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/4 "2014-11-20T01:08:35Z")
Basically anyone playing competitive video games on it uses wired, because syncing wireless is a hassle and can lead to things like someone accidentally pressing “home” during someone else’s match. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/5 "2014-11-20T01:23:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > USB 3.0 devices, however, are not necessarily backwards compatible with USB 2.0. The caveat only applies to B type slots though, right? I’m prepared to be more wrong than warm beer on this, but I think that A type slots should have no problem. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/6 "2014-11-20T01:36:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You understand incorrectly. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0 devices by design. USB 3.0 devices, however, are not necessarily backwards compatible with USB 2.0. > > And even with USB 2.0 devices on USB 3.0, you still need the drivers for the USB 2.0 device. There is no guarantee that, just because a device has a USB port, it can accept any USB device. > > Yes, Microsoft could have maintained backwards compatibility with 360 controllers. But nothing about the USB 3.0 specs require them to do so. You’re right, he shouldve pitted Microsoft instead of the USB 3.0 standard. Oh, wait. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/7 "2014-11-20T01:36:42Z")
You’re pretty much completely wrong on the technical details, but that doesn’t matter since your message is still true enough. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/8 "2014-11-20T01:44:06Z")
Seems kind of dumb even from a pure money-making perspective. Selling a slightly less expensive X-box option with no controllers included might’ve helped lock-in 360 owners who otherwise jumped to PS-4. People are weirdly susceptible to that kind of thing, even if the actual money saved is pretty small. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/9 "2014-11-20T01:45:18Z")
The only console I can think of offhand that supported using a prior-gen controller is the Wii U, and given how many issues Nintendo has had differentiating the U from the original Wii…well, maybe that wasn’t ideal. MS isn’t doing anything unusual by requiring current gen controllers. Backward compatibility would have been nice, perhaps, but their approach is the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/10 "2014-11-20T02:26:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, Microsoft could have maintained backwards compatibility with 360 controllers. But nothing about the USB 3.0 specs require them to do so. Obviously. He’s pissed because Microsoft chose not to simply as a money-grab. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/11 "2014-11-20T02:58:05Z")
because the Xbox is a fucking game console, and practically no game console in existence has offered backward- or forward-compatibility regarding controllers or peripherals. seriously, bitching at Microsoft about this is stupid since this shit is the same shit pulled by Sega, Nintendo, Sony, blah blah blah. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/12 "2014-11-20T03:10:02Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Obviously. He’s pissed because Microsoft chose not to simply as a money-grab. Is that really the case? It seems to me that it is perfectly possible, even plausible (though I don’t know that it is actually so), that the new controllers, using the faster USB 3 connection instead of USB 2, might be more responsive (and that games might even get written for the machine that will rely on such improved responsiveness). ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/13 "2014-11-20T03:10:48Z")
Most of the time though they actually change something about the controllers between console releases - I’ll give you that Sony does this at an olympic level as well, but at least they have tried compatibility before. Also if you had read into the spirit of my OP, and not the exact letter, you would notice that I was kind of pissed in general at companies who do stuff like this and that Microsoft just happened to be the unlucky evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/14 "2014-11-20T03:34:04Z")
Not to mention all those people who had $150+ fight sticks that are no longer compatible. Yeah, they can get a new controller board and re-solder it, but I’m sure some owners aren’t that with it. I don’t actually think Microsoft intended it as a cash grab. I think the most likely explanation is that they chose not to support Xbox 360 controllers because those controllers lacked the Kinect awareness stuff of the new ones and Microsoft was super gung-ho about Kinect during the Xbox One’s development. Not that that makes their decision any better from your end. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/15 "2014-11-20T20:37:08Z")
I would just like to say that when I’m King of the World, all devices will have one universal plug. Earphones, controllers, power outlets, everything will be universal. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/16 "2014-11-20T21:35:45Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Obviously. He’s pissed because Microsoft chose not to simply as a money-grab. Yes, it’s so obvious, that the OP said the exact opposite. One of the multiple things the OP has against Microsoft is that they aren’t following the USB 3.0 standard. I, in the interest of fighting ignorance, told him this was incorrect. Did people not read the first paragraph? > [@](#): > > As I understand it, USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0 hardware. So why on earth does microsoft make sure that its xbox one controllers (that use a 3.0 slot) cannot be used on the xbox 360 (2.0) or vice versa? When Microsoft is part of the USB promoter group? When the controllers themselves are unchanged? I was unaware that this sort of thing was now frowned on around here. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/17 "2014-11-20T23:19:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would just like to say that when I’m King of the World, all devices will have one universal plug. Earphones, controllers, power outlets, everything will be universal. Nothing could possibly go wrong with being able to plug your headphones into a power socket… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-microsoft/705116/18 "2014-11-21T00:19:57Z")
> [@Onyerbike](#): > > When the controllers themselves are unchanged? The controllers are not unchanged. The Xbox One controllers have different rumble capabilities than the Xbox 360 controllers. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the analog triggers and sticks have different response characteristics. Supporting old controllers would mean that every game would have to be coded to use both types. Not a huge amount of work, but it means that you’re locking developers into maintaining the old controllers for the entire lifetime of the console, which is a pain in the ass.