# I Pit "Modern Islam" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710 "2014-09-17T04:10:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/21 "2014-09-17T14:21:50Z")
Many of you are basing your arguments on comparison of different religions when ALL RELIGIONS are the foundation of the problem. The true purpose of any religion should be to bring spiritual enlightenment to the devout. But the problem with all religions is that people hijack those religions and use them to enforce their own twisted beliefs. Any religion which does not allow its followers to questions its principles is simply a tool used by the privileged to control those too stupid or afraid to question. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/22 "2014-09-17T14:53:10Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Many of you are basing your arguments on comparison of different religions when ALL RELIGIONS are the foundation of the problem. Substitute ‘Ideology’ for ‘Religion’ and the same argument holds true. Humans are very good at lying to themselves, refusing to accept reality, and becoming very very cross when other people don’t accept the same lies. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/23 "2014-09-17T15:06:42Z")
> [@](#): > > But the problem with all religions is that people hijack those religions and use them to enforce their own twisted beliefs. > > Any religion which does not allow its followers to questions its principles is simply a tool used by the privileged to control those too stupid or afraid to question. But their twisted beliefs come _from_ the religion. Say what you like about Islamic terrorists, they certainly know their scripture. And where religion is concerned, not questioning is kind of the point. That’s why they call it dogma. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/24 "2014-09-17T15:12:44Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I’m not a big authority on Islam but I do know the “honor killing” issue you raised is more cultural than religious. It’s not unknown to Christians either. I saw it happen among Orthodox Christian Serbs during the 1990’s. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/25 "2014-09-17T15:45:25Z")
(Modern Islam) Terrifies me (Modern Islam) Makes me weewee (Modern Islam) Guts my trust in God and Man (God and Man) No forced weddings (God and Man) No beheadings (God and Man) Don’t believe in MODERN ISLAM ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/26 "2014-09-17T15:52:12Z")
Ignorant poster starts ignorant thread. Surely this must be a first on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/27 "2014-09-17T16:25:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Your quote offers some insight. If Catholic bishops advised Christian men _not_ to become the equivalent of “radical jihadists”, would that be considered newsworthy? No, of course not. I’d say that says more about the way our news media talks about Islam than it says about Islam (or “Modern Islam,” in the parlance of the OP). If it turned out that there was a movement towards religiously inspired violence among 0.0001% of Christians, would it really call for the pope clarifying that Christianity does not endorse such behavior? Or wouldn’t that be obvious to the other 99.999% of Christendom and the world in general? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/28 "2014-09-17T16:57:16Z")
Fuck all high school football players. I haven’t heard a single one denounce Ray Rice. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/29 "2014-09-17T17:05:38Z")
I see no one is willing to address my specific claims: Honor killings. Theocratic societies. Banning the likeness of Mohammed. Restrictive clothing for women. Where are all the feminist secularists who make up the backbone of this board? Someone brings up Islam and they disappear. Grow a pair, people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/30 "2014-09-17T17:09:08Z")
Except for these people, who you are conveniently ignoring? > [@CairoCarol](#): > > Unless there is some particular sect called “Modern Islam” that I’m unaware of and which requires all female followers to wear British royalty hats, I must protest against the notion that all Muslim women don’t get to “dress normal.” > > I’ve lived in Muslim-majority countries for all but 2 years since late 1993, and virtually all of the women I’ve seen dress quite normally. Yes, there was the occasional BMO in the grocery store in Cairo, and that did seem oppressive, but (a) BMOs aren’t exactly “modern” Islam; many Muslim women don’t even veil at all; and (b) jilboobs are pretty common amongst those who do veil. > > Don’t know what a BMO is? Never heard of jilbooks? Then I submit you don’t know enough about Muslim sartorial matters to have an informed opinion. > > BTW, BMO = Black Moving Object and is reserved for the severest Wahhabi style of all black tent, grids over the eyes, and black gloves. > > As to jilboobs, use Google Images and see for yourself. Be careful though, when I tried it the images across the top were NSFW. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, Modern Islam is generally ok with most of that (except for the secularism and portrayal of Muhammad). It seems like your complaint isn’t with Islamic modernism but with neo-Salafi Islamists. > [@JesterX](#): > > I’m not a big authority on Islam but I do know the “honor killing” issue you raised is more cultural than religious. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It’s not unknown to Christians either. I saw it happen among Orthodox Christian Serbs during the 1990’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/31 "2014-09-17T17:35:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, Modern Islam is generally ok with most of that (except for the secularism and portrayal of Muhammad). It seems like your complaint isn’t with Islamic modernism but with neo-Salafi Islamists. From the Pew Survey But in South Asia and the Middle East and North Africa, medians of more than half back both severe criminal punishments and the **death penalty for Muslims who renounce their faith.** (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/32 "2014-09-17T17:39:34Z")
What if I think ALL religions are silly? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/33 "2014-09-17T17:57:05Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I see no one is willing to address my specific claims: > > Honor killings. > Theocratic societies. > Banning the likeness of Mohammed. > Restrictive clothing for women. > > Where are all the feminist secularists who make up the backbone of this board? > > Someone brings up Islam and they disappear. > > Grow a pair, people. I don’t see anyone on this board condemning North Korean death camps on a daily basis, either. What’s with that? Oh yeah: it isn’t controversial. Everyone hates honor killings, death camps, etc. What is controversial is people like you who want to believe that the actions of a terrorist group make everyone who looks like the members of the group somehow responsible. If we were having this debate 70 years ago, you’d probably be demanding why interned Japanese-Americans haven’t apologized enough for Pearl Harbor. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/34 "2014-09-17T18:08:49Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Honor killings. > Theocratic societies. > Banning the likeness of Mohammed. > Restrictive clothing for women. Except for the likeness of Mohammed, all the others exist outside of Islam and in many ways are cultural, not religious. So you’re pretty much striking out while trying to make your point. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/35 "2014-09-17T19:16:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Can you expound? I’m not doubting you, but there seem to be some strong parallels to me. ISIS is connected to other modern anti-establishment Islamist movements (loosely grouped as Jihadi) and in general participates in a strong local tradition of disaffected assholes appealing to a ‘purer’ Islam over the nominal authority’s ‘corrupted’ Islam that arguably dates back to the Khwarij. The LRA is more of an isolated, ‘new’ movement. Their local context that has not been especially Christian for long, and during that time the region has not had much political or religious stability. I guess I would loosely characterize it as: the LRA are ostensibly seeking a Christian solution to a mostly non-Christian problem, whereas ISIS and most other Jihadi groups are ostensibly seeking an Islamic solution to a mostly Islamic problem. They are both violent movements that claim religious justification, but the resonances they have (and the reasons why they have them), the historical foundations they have, and the religio-social factors driving their rebellion are all different enough that I don’t think comparing them is useful. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/36 "2014-09-17T20:32:13Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > . . . Are you of the same opinion that protestants the world over should be demanding real change and real reform for the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church? . . . Yes, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/37 "2014-09-17T20:47:38Z")
> [@nani](#): > > They are both violent movements that claim religious justification, but the resonances they have (and the reasons why they have them), the historical foundations they have, and the religio-social factors driving their rebellion are all different enough that I don’t think comparing them is useful. I don’t disagree with you, but the bias is on **Stringbean** and others like them. Simply because one claims a Christian basis and one claims an Islamic bases generates a wildly different reaction. Christianity _isn’t_ expected to demand real change and real reform because of the LRA, but Muslims worldwide are expected to repeatedly condemn ISIL. And even when they do it doesn’t matter because people like **Stringbean** don’t bother listening to them and just keep asking why they let a minority hijack their religion. But since the LRA calls itself Christian it gets people like[Rush Limbaugh](http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/limbaugh-defends-lords-resistance-army/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0) going on the radio to say things like: > [@Limbaugh](#): > > You never heard of Lord’s Resistance Army? Well, proves my contention, most Americans have never heard of it, and here we are at war with them. Lord’s Resistance Army are Christians. It means God. > … > Lord’s Resistance Army are Christians. They are fighting the Muslims in Sudan. And Obama has sent troops, United States troops to remove them from the battlefield, which means kill them. That’s what the lingo means, “to help regional forces remove from the battlefield,” meaning capture or kill. > > So that’s a new war, a hundred troops to wipe out Christians in Sudan, Uganda, and – (interruption) no, I’m not kidding. Rush is so not embarrassed about that you can even read the entire shows transcript on his [site](http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/10/14/obama_invades_uganda_targets_christians). Where to this day it’s still labeled as Obama invades Uganda, targets Christians. But **Stringbean** has never been upset about Rush. Instead they’re focused on not being able to draw pictures of Mohammad because that’s apparently a huge problem in their life. Is the OP upset with the restrictive dress codes in Orthodox Judaism? No, they are entirely focused on Islam. Is the OP concerned when American politicians quote the bible as the basis for laws or try to have the Ten Commandments installed in public buildings? Nope, again, just Islam needs to worry about theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/38 "2014-09-17T20:52:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Yes, of course. Then your problem is with _religion_ and I don’t see a reason you’d even remotely want to appear as supportive of a bigot like the OP. Also, I don’t think you quite grasp how groups of people (religious or not) work if you expect generic Christian A to lead a reform of the WBC or even have a way to “demand real reform and change” within the WBC. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/39 "2014-09-17T21:07:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if I think ALL religions are silly? Just curious. Silly is not the same as dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710/40 "2014-09-17T21:41:24Z")
All I know is somewhere out there, some nice Himba lady is wondering why our oppressive modesty laws force women, and only women, to wear restrictive and uncomfortable tops at all times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-modern-islam/698710.md?page=3)