# I Pit my dad for unironically pointing out that he retired at 50, and that at 36, I've never worked **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738 "2014-03-03T06:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/81 "2014-03-06T02:42:36Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > How in the hell that could be his dads fault, I just don’t know. That aside, I find it weird that even though he himself only seems to blame his terrible parents for his failings - he has never said anything about his disability stopping him from finishing college sometime in the 18 years he has had available - the white knights of the boards immediately want to come in and pat him on the head and yell at everyone else that it’s not fair to expect the disabled to have any ambitions at all, don’t you know everyone is prejudiced against them? > > Would this be the reaction to any other 36 year old who complained that their dad wasn’t personally planning and funding their university education? I don’t think so. It seems pretty condescending to me that he gets a special response, like a slightly whiny child would, but maybe that’s how he wants it. I wouldn’t say he deserves that “special response” either. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/82 "2014-03-06T02:44:18Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Etv has admitted to enjoying trolling message boards, sometimes pretending to be a woman pregnant with twins on mommy boards. I’m not saying that he’s not who he says he is here, I know he is, but I do think he enjoys getting negative reactions from people by starting an OP like this and then vanishing. So I guess I’m saying disability or not, he’s trolling us - just as himself. Yeah, people like to do that. He could be a hoax even. I’ve seen it happen - somebody likes to go around board pretending to be disabled or dying and then when he’s tired of the game he pretends a friend is posting to say he/she died. Kind of like that football player’s famous fake girlfriend. You never know. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/83 "2014-03-06T05:10:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Oh, please, more extremist crap, all that either-or stuff - acknowledging that it _really is harder_ for someone disabled is NOT the same as saying he shouldn’t have ambition. Does that absolve him of all responsibility? Certainly not. But all the talk about “I know person X with Y disability and they did great!” is like going up to your average kid and asking why he doesn’t repeat the success of Mark Zuckerberg. Come on, you can’t accuse me of being an extremist and then say that attending college sometime in the 18 years between high school and 36 is the same as replicating the success of Mark Zuckerberg. Even for someone with a disability. If he were 22 and hadn’t finished college I would agree with you - there are extenuating circumstances here. But surely at some point he takes responsibility for his own future and his own failings. You seem to want to just want his parents to hold his hand and say “there, there, whatever you can manage is fine!”. Well, obviously they disagree. And we have no idea whether or not they were aware of the nature of his disability when they adopted him. We have no idea whether or not they _have_ been supporting him as an adult. All we know is that he doesn’t approve of the way they do it. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/84 "2014-03-06T05:59:17Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, ASKING is appropriate. Assuming is a bad idea. Oh, come now. Without blind, knee-jerk assumptions, the Internet wouldn’t exist. 😛 And what else are we supposed to do, if the OP chooses to withhold any further communication? We’re left to “assume” that he’s a lazy, spoiled, sympathy-trolling jerk who’s manipulating everyone, including his adoptive family, with his birth defect. That’s hardly a blind assumption anyway, because it happens all the time IRL and elsewhere – Occam’s Razor, etc. What’s your stake in defending him, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/85 "2014-03-06T13:47:35Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yeah, people like to do that. He could be a hoax even. I’ve met him. He really does use a wheelchair. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/86 "2014-03-06T13:48:32Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > What’s your stake in defending him, anyway? Well, I’m not really defending him, I’m sticking up for the general principle of not making assumptions without evidence, as I often do. (I know, it’s the Internet - my quest is doomed to failure). But I do have a personal stake, as I am the father of a child with a disability, though she’s not yet an adult and her disabilities are mostly intellectual, not physical. So I know these things can be complex. As such a dad, I’m on both sides here - I want to see people with disabilities given full access to education and jobs and such, and cut some slack, but on the other hand, I don’t want them coddled or pitied or given no expectations to help themselves either. So I strongly agree with PunditLisa and others that we should expect ambition and work from people with disabilities too, and not consider them weak or helpless and unable to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/87 "2014-03-06T13:49:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’ve met him. He really does use a wheelchair. Well, that’s good to know. Thanks. It’s rare that posters meet others in person in a forum like this. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/88 "2014-03-06T13:50:09Z")
That’s why we need more Dopefests. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/89 "2014-03-06T15:01:22Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yeah, people like to do that. He could be a hoax even. I’ve seen it happen - somebody likes to go around board pretending to be disabled or dying and then when he’s tired of the game he pretends a friend is posting to say he/she died. Kind of like that football player’s famous fake girlfriend. You never know. One of the most pernicious things that kind of troll does is make others doubt legitimate claims of disability on line. It’s getting so if someone claims disability they have to surrender their privacy and provide proof. What next? Having to prove race, gender, educational credentials? > [@Meyer6](#): > > Come on, you can’t accuse me of being an extremist and then say that attending college sometime in the 18 years between high school and 36 is the same as replicating the success of Mark Zuckerberg. Even for someone with a disability. If he were 22 and hadn’t finished college I would agree with you - there are extenuating circumstances here. But surely at some point he takes responsibility for his own future and his own failings. Actually, despite modern requirements for accommodation a disability still can interfere with success in college. I don’t know the details here, that’s part of the problem. Was there a financial issue? After all, we don’t know the financial situation and even **etv78** may not really know what’s up with his parents. Did he have to drop for awhile for medical reasons and never get around to getting back? As I have mentioned, my spouse has a _milder form_ of the same birth defect with fewer problems than most. He has been hospitalized twice in the past 10 years due to on-going problems resulting from this birth defect. It sure as hell interfered with his schooling - 5 years slogging through high school because of all the time he missed due to medical problems, which is why he took his GED instead of a sixth year. Six years to get a four year degree, same reasons. It has and continues to interfere with his ability to make a living. I can only assume that **etv78** has similar on-going problems only to a greater degree. Does that make it _impossible_ to get a degree? Certainly not - but it does make it much harder. Add in a less than perfect grade point, maybe some financial problems, and I can see where college doesn’t get finished. There are numerous reasons people don’t finish college and they don’t all come down to “lazy”. Without more information we just can’t know. > [@](#): > > And we have no idea whether or not they were aware of the nature of his disability when they adopted him. Spina bifida occurs within 8 weeks of conception. The kid is born with his spinal column hanging out through hole where the base of his spine doesn’t form properly, and may even be exposed to open air. The scar the results from surgical repair is pretty obvious, I mean, even if you were completely blind you’d have no trouble feeling it. Oh, and given he’s paralyzed the lack of movement in his lower limbs would have been pretty obvious. There is _no way_ they couldn’t have known the kid was disabled when they adopted. I mean, seriously, you get a new baby that has no movement in his lower legs and a four inch scar across his back (that’s the size of my spouse’s scar) and you don’t notice that maybe the kid is a little different than normal? > [@](#): > > We have no idea whether or not they _have_ been supporting him as an adult. All we know is that he doesn’t approve of the way they do it. Until he got his own apartment, which was fairly recently, I believe he was living at home so they were supporting him at least with housing. Personally, I think it would do him some good to do _something_, get a part-time time of some sort, but it’s not like he can start shoveling snow for pocket change. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > As such a dad, I’m on both sides here - I want to see people with disabilities given full access to education and jobs and such, and cut some slack, but on the other hand, I don’t want them coddled or pitied or given no expectations to help themselves either. So I strongly agree with PunditLisa and others that we should expect ambition and work from people with disabilities too, and not consider them weak or helpless and unable to do anything. The problem is that when your kid goes to apply for work she’s going to slam right into people who DO consider the disabled weak, helpless, and unable to do anything and will not hire her no matter how qualified. Not everyone, no, but it’s foolish, if not cruel, to pretend that sort of prejudice doesn’t exist even if it’s no longer legal to discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/90 "2014-03-06T15:59:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The problem is that when your kid goes to apply for work she’s going to slam right into people who DO consider the disabled weak, helpless, and unable to do anything and will not hire her no matter how qualified. Not everyone, no, but it’s foolish, if not cruel, to pretend that sort of prejudice doesn’t exist even if it’s no longer legal to discriminate. Oh, I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. And it exists in part because it’s an easy trap to fall into. People with disabilities can’t do certain things, and it’s too easy to just ignore or fail to find out what they can do, or make an effort to accommodate them so the disabilities aren’t barriers. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/91 "2014-03-06T16:24:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As I have mentioned, my spouse has a _milder form_ of the same birth defect with fewer problems than most. He has been hospitalized twice in the past 10 years due to on-going problems resulting from this birth defect. It sure as hell interfered with his schooling - 5 years slogging through high school because of all the time he missed due to medical problems, which is why he took his GED instead of a sixth year. Six years to get a four year degree, same reasons. It has and continues to interfere with his ability to make a living. I can only assume that **etv78** has similar on-going problems only to a greater degree. Does that make it _impossible_ to get a degree? Certainly not - but it does make it much harder. Add in a less than perfect grade point, maybe some financial problems, and I can see where college doesn’t get finished. Yeah, but those aren’t exactly things he can blame on his dad, are they? And that’s where I think you and a lot of posters are talking past each other. You’re right, it absolutely is harder for people with medical problems to get through school and get/keep jobs. But the people you’re arguing with are also right, because **etv78** is stating outright that he could have finished school _a decade ago_ if it weren’t for [del]those meddling kids[/del] his horrible, selfish father. If he thinks he could have gotten through grad school a decade ago, then he clearly considers his disability something that’s entirely surmountable in a college setting.\* I think you’re also talking past one another on the whole job front, too. Yeah, it’s crazy hard out there right now, and has been the past few years. But right now and the last few years aren’t the entirety of his adult life–there were a lot of years when he was a grown-ass adult that it wasn’t hard out there at all. There might not have been an overload of good, long-term career type jobs out there, but getting a job in retail or data entry was pretty much a matter of showing up for the interview sober and not wearing underpants on your head. (There were a few places that I’m not sure would have cared that much about the underpants.) Hell, Walmart was _actively looking_ for disabled people to hire as greeters. It being hard out there _now_ doesn’t explain not ever having a job _then_. \*All disabilities, their effects, and how surmountable they may be are highly individual. Statements made about one individual case do not apply to other individual cases. Void where prohibited. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/92 "2014-03-06T17:15:51Z")
I’m just a little bummed that none of my vague, whiny, content-less posts ever inspire 2 pages worth of responses here. I need to step up my game. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/93 "2014-03-06T17:29:36Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I’m just a little bummed that none of my vague, whiny, content-less posts ever inspire 2 pages worth of responses here. I need to step up my game. Be sure to list all the special conditions that make your whine of particularly sympathy-inducing vintage. Nobody gives no fline fook about the problems of the unafflicted. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/94 "2014-03-06T17:32:32Z")
Needs more cowbell. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/95 "2014-03-07T00:05:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There is _no way_ they couldn’t have known the kid was disabled when they adopted. When I said they may or may not have known about the nature of his disability, I meant they may not have known that he would need support into adulthood, since you were saying that they should have been warned of that. > [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > And that’s where I think you and a lot of posters are talking past each other. You’re right, it absolutely is harder for people with medical problems to get through school and get/keep jobs. But the people you’re arguing with are also right, because **etv78** is stating outright that he could have finished school _a decade ago_ if it weren’t for [del]those meddling kids[/del] his horrible, selfish father. Yes, well put, thank you. Nobody is denying that medical problems or other issues can make life harder and delay various accomplishments. But just throwing your hands up and saying “well, everything is too difficult for him, poor baby” is just infantalizing and silly. He has said himself that the only reason he doesn’t have that coveted masters degree is because of his evil father, and he has admitted that he got himself kicked out of university in the past because of his own transgressions. I have no idea why some posters continue to defend him as though we’re all just mocking him for being disabled. \*\*Broomstick \*\*- I can see that you’re very invested in painting etv (and therefore your husband, and by extension yourself) as just hapless victims of circumstance. But you’ve gone way beyond giving him a little of the benefit of the doubt and you’ve moved into a ridiculous kneejerk ‘but guys, he’s _disabled_, don’t you get it?’ cycle. At this point you’re not listening to what anyone else is saying, even the OP. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/96 "2014-03-07T00:23:20Z")
Circling back… “bladder incident”? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/97 "2014-03-07T00:34:22Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > When I said they may or may not have known about the nature of his disability, I meant they may not have known that he would need support into adulthood, since you were saying that they should have been warned of that. We both agree on that - they should have been warned about that. > [@](#): > > Yes, well put, thank you. Nobody is denying that medical problems or other issues can make life harder and delay various accomplishments. But just throwing your hands up and saying “well, everything is too difficult for him, poor baby” is just infantalizing and silly. Except I’m NOT saying that. I have stated more than once in this thread that he bears some responsibility and would be better off working. But hey, go ahead and paint me as more extremist than I actually am. > [@](#): > > At this point you’re not listening to what anyone else is saying, even the OP. Clearly, if you think I’m 100% sympathetic you aren’t reading what I’m writing, either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/98 "2014-03-07T00:41:24Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > \*\*Broomstick \*\*- I can see that you’re very invested in painting etv (and therefore your husband, and by extension yourself) as just hapless victims of circumstance. Excuse me, I particularly take exception to this line. Neither my spouse nor I are helpless and characterizing him as a “victim of circumstance” is especially insulting. He has a long list of accomplishments that anyone would be proud of, those didn’t happen by chance or “circumstance”. Yours is a good example of the sort of binary thinking I object to. You seem to have a notion that someone disabled has to be either/or. In fact, my spouse is both very able and very disabled at the same time. There is also the problem that prejudice against the disabled is VERY real and there is little any disabled person can do about it. “Hapless victims of circumstance”? No - victims of prejudice and unjustified bias in many cases. Which is why my spouse has had much more luck as an entrepreneur than as an employee. 90% of what held him back in the work world was the _attitude of other people_ who made kneejerk judgements about him based on how he walked or what he couldn’t do that wasn’t relevant to the job. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/99 "2014-03-07T02:05:51Z")
This thread is the internet version of leaving a flaming bag of dogshit on someone’s porch, ringing the doorbell, then running and hiding… …Watching with glee as the residents of the house, and the neighbors, are at first miffled, confused, angry, accusing, and just generally making a big deal about it and each other. I think if he really wanted sympathy, he would have been intelligent enough to craft his thread in such a way to make him look sympathetic (whether it were true or not) explaining details thoroughly enough people aren’t going to keep pressing him for more information or pointing out hypocritical parts of his dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738/100 "2014-03-07T03:23:12Z")
Well, yeah, but what _else_ has he got to do all day besides provoke a show? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-dad-for-unironically-pointing-out-that-he-retired-at-50-and-that-at-36-ive-never-worked/682738.md?page=6)