# I pit my fellow whiteys who think they are Native American **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686 "2014-09-16T20:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/181 "2014-09-23T20:47:54Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > RIP thread. You were a good pitting while you lasted. No it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/182 "2014-09-23T22:18:52Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Once when the teacher in one of my high school classes had to do one of those “ethnic background” surveys, there was a kid in the class who was Spanish, as in “He’s from Barcelona.” He raised his hand for the “white European” category, not the “Hispanic” one. That’s not surprising. The “Hispanic” category is a peculiarly American creation that few people in Europe would understand. And let’s not even talk about the whole Brazilian conundrum…! Fact of the matter is, although a large proportion of Hispanics in the US fit a “type”, many do not. Expressing surprise that some don’t is pretty ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/183 "2014-09-24T03:51:42Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Once when the teacher in one of my high school classes had to do one of those “ethnic background” surveys, there was a kid in the class who was Spanish, as in “He’s from Barcelona.” He raised his hand for the “white European” category, not the “Hispanic” one. My aforementioned cousins are from Barcelona. He considers himself both a Spaniard and Hispano (but not Latino, as this is always a shortening of Latinoamericano and that he is not). She considers herself neither. **John Mace** , _el día de la Raza_ is an American creation? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/184 "2014-09-24T04:25:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **John Mace** , _el día de la Raza_ is an American creation? I don’t know what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/185 "2014-09-24T05:21:55Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > Yes, but > > 1. Does he have an ID card that says, explicitly he is “Hispanic”? No > [@](#): > > 1. Is he listed as “Hispanic” on any vital records? Probably, not sure. > [@](#): > > 1. Does he have a certificate from a government entity certifying this status? Not likely. > [@](#): > > At the end of the day, it truly does come down on an insistence, and nothing more. I am not saying there is no such thing as “Hispanic,” I am simply stating there are no uniform indicators of this status - as there are with Native Americans and most African Americans. This is true, which is why none of the above answers matter. We all identify in various ways that may or may not be “officially” recognized by anyone. The U.S. Government doesn’t know I’m Catholic, but I certainly identify as one. Being Hispanic is a cultural identification, and those are fluid…that’s why I said my husband identifies that way, but my kids may not so much. And their kids less likely still. He happens to have the most obvious indicator, which is a Hispanic last name. My point, however, was that his looks have little to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/186 "2014-09-24T10:18:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > My aforementioned cousins are from Barcelona. He considers himself both a Spaniard and Hispano (but not Latino, as this is always a shortening of Latinoamericano and that he is not). She considers herself neither. Yes, by the US Government’s definition, Spaniards are Hispanic, and Brazilians are not. But Brazilians are Latino while Spaniards are not. Brazilians are not Hispanic because they don’t speak Spanish, but they are Latino because they live in ‘Latin America’. The one refers to a specific language (and outside of Spain itself, a colonizing ancestor culture), while the other refers more to populations within a geographical location. But lumping them all together within either group as if they’re identical and claiming there is a particular look that applies to anyone who qualifies as being described by that term is as insulting as lumping together all indigenous North American tribes under one label and assuming they’re the same. Which, of course, you’re not doing; I’m referring to other people’s assumptions. Words have meaning, and official definitions, regardless of common usage and the knowledge and understanding of the users. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/187 "2014-09-24T16:24:09Z")
> [@Dunkelheit](#): > > Yes, by the US Government’s definition, Spaniards are Hispanic, and Brazilians are not. But Brazilians are Latino while Spaniards are not. Brazilians are not Hispanic because they don’t speak Spanish, but they are Latino because they live in ‘Latin America’. > > Words have meaning, and official definitions, regardless of common usage and the knowledge and understanding of the users. Cite? US Government’s definition. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/188 "2014-09-24T16:29:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Cite? US Government’s definition. Looks like there is [not one definition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Definitions_in_the_United_States). Some departments include Portuguese speakers, some do not. But I think if a person self-identifies as Hispanic, the government is not going to disagree just because the person is from Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/189 "2014-09-24T17:59:00Z")
The Census allows people to self-identify as follows: Is person 1 of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish Origin? [ul] [li]No, not of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish Origin[/li][li]Yes, Mexican, Mexican American, Chicano[/li][li]Yes, Puerto Rican[/li][li]Yes, Cuban[/li][li]Yes, another Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin (write in specifics)[/li][/ul] Then race is asked as a separate question. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/190 "2014-09-24T18:19:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’m native Pangaean. You, too? Do you know Bob? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/191 "2014-09-24T18:37:55Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > You, too? > > Do you know Bob? Ding! ding! ding! We have a winner! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/192 "2014-09-24T19:28:50Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > You, too? > > Do you know Bob? Yanno, I might. What exit? ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/193 "2014-09-25T07:42:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Cite? US Government’s definition. Looks like the USG lumps together Hispanic with Latino, but all the Brazilians I know of (and my husband has come into contact with a lot) will accept the term Latino because of their geographical location, but not Hispanic, because they are not of Spanish descent, but Portuguese. It may be argued that Portugal was part of “Hispania” as such, but as this is largely a matter of self-identification, I’m prepared to accept their definition. [http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg\_1997standards](http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards) "The Interagency Committee recommended that respondents to Federal data collections should be permitted to report more than one race. During the most recent public comment process, a few comments suggested that the concept of “marking more than one box” should be extended to the Hispanic origin question. Respondents are now asked to indicate if they are “of Hispanic origin” or “not of Hispanic origin.” Allowing individuals to select more than one response to the ethnicity question would provide the opportunity to indicate ethnic heritage that is both Hispanic and non-Hispanic. The term “Hispanic” refers to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish cultures. While there has been considerable public concern about the need to review Directive No. 15 with respect to classifying individuals of mixed racial heritage, there has been little comment on reporting both an Hispanic and a non-Hispanic origin. On many Federal forms, Hispanics can also express a racial identity on a separate race question. In the decennial census, individuals who consider themselves part Hispanic can also indicate additional heritages in the ancestry question." "-- Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, **regardless of race**. The term, “Spanish origin,” can be used in addition to “Hispanic or Latino.” > **[Hispanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Definitions_in_Portugal_and_Spain)** > > The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano) refers to people, cultures, or countries related to Spain, the Spanish language, or Hispanidad broadly. In some contexts, especially within the United States, "Hispanic" is used as an ethnic or meta-ethnic term. > The term commonly applies to Spaniards and Spanish-speaking (Hispanophone) populations and countries in Hispanic America (the continent) and Hispanic Africa (Equatorial Guinea and the disputed territory of Western Sahara), which were formerly part of ... Persons from Portugal or of Portuguese extraction are known as Lusitanians or “Lusófonos” (Lusophone) not Hispanic. In Portugal, Hispanic refers to something related to ancient Hispania, Spain or the Spanish language and culture, not Portugal[35] Portugal and Spain do not have exactly the same definition for the term Hispanic, but they do share the etimology for the word (pt: hispânico, es: hispánico). The Royal Spanish Academy (Spanish: Real Academia Española, RAE), the official royal institution responsible for regulating the Spanish language defines the term “Hispano” (which means “Hispanic” in Spanish) as:[36] ``` Of or pertaining to Spain. Spanish, as applied to a person. Belonging or relative to old Hispania. Of or pertaining to the nations of Hispanic America. Of or pertaining to the population of Hispanic American origin who live in the United States of America. A person of this origin who lives in the United States of America. ``` The term signifies the cultural resonance, among other elements and characteristics, of the descendants of the people who inhabited ancient Hispania. It has been used throughout history for many purposes, including drawing a contrast to the Moors and differentiating explorers and settlers. **The correct modern term to identify Portuguese and Spanish cultures under a single nomenclature is “Iberian”, and the one to refer to cultures derived from both countries in the Americas is “Iberian-American”. These designations can be mutually recognized by people in Portugal and Brazil, unlike “Hispanic”, which is totally void of any self-identification in those countries, and quite on the opposite, serves the purpose of marking a clear distinction in relation to neighboring countries´ culture.** In Spanish, the term “hispano” as in “hispanoamericano”, refers to the people of Spanish origin who live in the Americas; it also refers to a relationship to Hispania or to the Spanish language. There are people in the Hispanic (Latin) Americas that are not of Spanish origin, as the original people of these areas are American Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/194 "2014-09-25T10:02:36Z")
[QUOTE= Betty MaDonald] I found it impossible to remember that almost everyone was part Indian. I commented on this to a tall blond woman named Selma Johnson whom we picked up on the road one day and drove to the Docktown store. She laughed heartily and said, “Don’t let it bother you. Now, I’m one third bow and arrow, myself. Dad’s a Swede and Mom’s an Indian and I look 99 like a Swede and my older sis looks like Pocahontas. The only thing I inherited from Mom was good teeth. All us Indians got good teeth,” and she laughed again, [/quote] … ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/195 "2014-09-26T03:18:43Z")
The Daily Show just nailed this trope, four Redskins fans who don’t want the name changed all self identified as being part Cherokee. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/196 "2014-11-19T02:31:49Z")
So, I’ve recently been hearing some people say that white people may have been here first, and that invaders from Asia came across the Bering Strait and slaughtered all of the original white inhabitants. The invaders are now the current so-called “Native Americans.” I doubt this is true, but if it is, it changes the game a bit. It might mean that I (a white guy) am not a Colonial invader after all, but someone who returned to his ancestral homeland and reclaimed it from the invaders. And undid the initial genocide. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/197 "2014-11-19T03:27:22Z")
I’ve recently read a thing or two that says Martians have wings. I haven’t seen any Martians with wings. Isn’t the atmosphere there like really, really thin?!? :eek: What the fuck is going on? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/198 "2014-11-19T03:48:16Z")
My wife is both totally indistinguishable, culturally and physically, from a white person, and also a card carrying member of a native american tribe. We like to joke about how upset she is about what her people did to her people. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/199 "2014-11-19T09:33:41Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > So, I’ve recently been hearing some people say that white people may have been here first, and that invaders from Asia came across the Bering Strait and slaughtered all of the original white inhabitants. The invaders are now the current so-called “Native Americans.” I doubt this is true, but if it is, it changes the game a bit. It might mean that I (a white guy) am not a Colonial invader after all, but someone who returned to his ancestral homeland and reclaimed it from the invaders. And undid the initial genocide. If all of the white people were slaughtered, how can it be your ancestral homeland? You’re can’t be descended from the people who lived there. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/200 "2014-11-19T10:57:13Z")
I can’t help but draw parallels to a big scandal in my home town in around the late 80’s. The individual genuinely had African American ancestry (IIRC a grandmother so 1/4 verifiable). He also happened to have a stereotypical Irish last name and the stereotypical pasty skin with freckles look. He happened to claim African American when he applied to the local fire department. He also had low enough entrance scores that he wouldn’t have gotten the job without Affirmative Action. Oh the absolute shit storm that caused. There’s probably some deep parallel I could draw about getting your panties in a bunch over strict labels applied to a nation of mutts (Especially if someone doesn’t look or behave in a way that matches the owner of said bunched panties stereotypes.) I’m too busy giggling at the memory of strident opponents and supporters of affirmative action in an unholy alliance calling for him to be fired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=11)