# I pit my fellow whiteys who think they are Native American **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686 "2014-09-16T20:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/121 "2014-09-18T19:40:18Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > What was it someone said in the heterosexual lesbian thread that was so funny-- something about identifying with the term strongly enough to accept being at odds with it semantically? gosh, it was good. It applies here. Heterosexual lesbian? Wha? > [@TriPolar](#): > > Suppose someone told you they had Roma ancestors\* but knew nothing about it \*and _wanted to learn._ How would they be treated. Is it offensive if they’re being honest? Maybe they tried to shake her hand? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/122 "2014-09-18T19:53:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Maybe they tried to shake her hand? Yeah, I’m realizing I shouldn’t have bothered to ask. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/123 "2014-09-18T20:00:03Z")
About 15 years ago, I was contacted by a distant cousin who was doing genealogy, and had kinda known she had some Jewish roots, but hadn’t realized how Jewish she was, and started to learn more about it, until she decided she thought she might want to return to Judaism, so she wanted to learn about how our family practiced Judaism. I had to explain to her that no one living right now probably practiced the way the particular people who split off from had practiced, but I was happy to tell her anything she wanted to know. What had happened was that some of the people in my family came from England, speaking English, in second class, not steerage, and while most of them moved to the Lower East Side, where most of the other Jews were, some of the went up to Connecticut, and Massachusetts, and just quietly started going to the Episcopal church. It was one of the “Episcopal” cousins who contacted me. I helped her learn a lot about Judaism and get comfortable going to shul. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/124 "2014-09-18T20:00:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Heterosexual lesbian? Wha? I know a guy who claims he’s a MALE lesbian. He is of course a fucking nincompoop. Wait, that’s wrong. He’s a NON-fucking nincompoop. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/125 "2014-09-18T20:10:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Suppose someone told you they had Roma ancestors\* but knew nothing about it \*and _wanted to learn._ How would they be treated. Is it offensive if they’re being honest? I would be really curious how they KNEW they had Roma ancestory, but knew nothing whatsoever that was correct about Roma. I suppose it might have been possible right after WWII that some Roma child who had been separated from his or her parents and then hidden, grew up knowing they were Roma, but not knowing anything more, but those people have had six decades to return. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/126 "2014-09-18T20:17:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I would be really curious how they KNEW they had Roma ancestory, but knew nothing whatsoever that was correct about Roma. I suppose it might have been possible right after WWII that some Roma child who had been separated from his or her parents and then hidden, grew up knowing they were Roma, but not knowing anything more, but those people have had six decades to return. Ok, but their grandchildren didn’t have that time to learn. They may have just found out. Is being raised in your culture that significant? And out of curiousity, can you convert to Roma? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/127 "2014-09-18T20:18:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I know a guy who claims he’s a MALE lesbian. He is of course a fucking nincompoop. > > Wait, that’s wrong. He’s a NON-fucking nincompoop. It’s a common joke, but I’ll bite. How does he justify his inane concept? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/128 "2014-09-18T20:21:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok, but their grandchildren didn’t have that time to learn. They may have just found out. Is being raised in your culture that significant? And out of curiousity, can you convert to Roma? In the sense that people can convert to Judaism, no. A person can marry into a Roma family and then depending on their behavior be accepted as one of the family or not. If they are accepted by their spouse’s family, they will generally be accepted by other Roma. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/129 "2014-09-18T20:27:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s a common joke, but I’ll bite. How does he justify his inane concept? Lesbians want to have sex with women, _he_ wants to have sex with women. Funny once. About 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/130 "2014-09-18T21:00:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Lesbians want to have sex with women, _he_ wants to have sex with women. > > Funny once. About 40 years ago. Well yeah, that’s the joke. But Skald sounded like the guy was being serious. I kind of expect it’s just the joke. ETA: Maybe I read too much into Skald’s post. I guess he’s just commenting on someone still using that joke. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/131 "2014-09-18T22:18:19Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No, you’re Hispanic if you’re a member of that ethnicity/cultural group. Which true, it has nothing to do with race, but there ARE things that define it. My husband is a blue-eyed, blonde Hispanic, who grew up in a home with a parent who was an immigrant from a Spanish-speaking country. He has a Spanish last name. They followed ethnic traditions from his dad’s homeland. He’s Hispanic…and it’s not just his “say-so,” he’s Hispanic because he IS. > > That being said, his connection to the heritage is stronger than, say, our kids’ connection, and by the time the family is 1/32 Hispanic, I think we can safely say there isn’t a connection at all. This is no different than someone claiming to be Native American if they are culturally removed from that group. It’s offensive to say or imply that they understand the experience of being Native American. Yes, but 1. Does he have an ID card that says, explicitly he is “Hispanic”? 2. Is he listed as “Hispanic” on any vital records? 3. Does he have a certificate from a government entity certifying this status? At the end of the day, it truly does come down on an insistence, and nothing more. I am not saying there is no such thing as “Hispanic,” I am simply stating there are no uniform indicators of this status - as there are with Native Americans and most African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/132 "2014-09-18T22:42:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I know a guy who claims he’s a MALE lesbian. He is of course a fucking nincompoop. > > Wait, that’s wrong. He’s a NON-fucking nincompoop. Maybe he feels like he is female, but just doesn’t have money for reassignment surgery or doesn’t want to bother with that or hormone treatment AND is attracted to women? Ok that is all I got. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/133 "2014-09-18T22:46:43Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > Yes, but > > 1. Does he have an ID card that says, explicitly he is “Hispanic”? > 2. Is he listed as “Hispanic” on any vital records? > 3. Does he have a certificate from a government entity certifying this status? > > At the end of the day, it truly does come down on an insistence, and nothing more. I am not saying there is no such thing as “Hispanic,” I am simply stating there are no uniform indicators of this status - as there are with Native Americans and most African Americans. There are no set indicators of African Americanness. If someone tells me they are black/African American, I will generally accept them at their word. I’m not unusual in this regard. If I later find out a person is just a “pretendarian”, I’ll probably be very annoyed. But not because they’re taking anything away from me and my identity. It’s just that it’s stupid to be a wannabe. And really really [crazy](http://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/transracialists-seek-recognition-and-acceptance-an-interview-with-howard-copeland-harlem-chapter-tlpc-president/) too. I’ve got way too many cousins who are blonde-haired and blue-eyed to play race police. I’ve got too much respect for folks like Walter White ([the real one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White)) to play the tired “blacker than thou” card. And I’ve had my own negro card snatched away from me too many times to feel compelled to do it to someone else. I suppose I feel like, if someone wants to be in the culture, the more the merrier. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/134 "2014-09-19T13:34:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There are no set indicators of African Americanness. If someone tells me they are black/African American, I will generally accept them at their word. I’m not unusual in this regard. > > If I later find out a person is just a “pretendarian”, I’ll probably be very annoyed. But not because they’re taking anything away from me and my identity. It’s just that it’s stupid to be a wannabe. And really really [crazy](http://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/transracialists-seek-recognition-and-acceptance-an-interview-with-howard-copeland-harlem-chapter-tlpc-president/) too. You do know that appears to be a satirical news site right?🙂 One of the stories is about Sharia law being passed in Germany, and a woman being unable to find four male muslim witnesses to testify in her rape trial. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/135 "2014-09-19T17:47:52Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > There is a pretty easy determination of one’s native American heritage. The next time someone claims it, ask if they have their CBID. If they don’t know what one is, they likely are NA by family stories. I have an NA friend who uses “knows what fry bread is” as her personal barometer of whether someone is/could actually be NA. (Except now that includes me, and I’m really not even close.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/136 "2014-09-19T20:53:11Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I have an NA friend who uses “knows what fry bread is” as her personal barometer of whether someone is/could actually be NA. > > (Except now that includes me, and I’m really not even close.) Hmm. That would include about half the population of New Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/137 "2014-09-19T22:17:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s a common joke, but I’ll bite. How does he justify his inane concept? I haven’t the foggiest, but I have my suspicions as to his motives. That is, I think by claiming to [del]sympathize[/del] empathize so deeply with lesbians that he practically is one, he hopes to persuade one to fuck him. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work, which is why I called him unfucked . > [@grude](#): > > Maybe he feels like he is female, but just doesn’t have money for reassignment surgery or doesn’t want to bother with that or hormone treatment AND is attracted to women? > > Ok that is all I got. No, he just doesn’t get that the best way to get a woman to go out with and eventually fuck him is to actually talk to women who might want to go out with and eventually fuck him, be honest about his feelings and intentions, modify his behavior and attitude as needed, and not be so afraid of rejection. I started a thread about the guy once. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/138 "2014-09-20T02:30:05Z")
RIP thread. You were a good pitting while you lasted. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/139 "2014-09-20T03:19:44Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I have an NA friend who uses “knows what fry bread is” as her personal barometer of whether someone is/could actually be NA. > > (Except now that includes me, and I’m really not even close.) They call it bake in the Caribbean, mmm I love it! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/140 "2014-09-20T03:51:52Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > They have brown skin, brown eyes and dark hair. They speak their own languages, such as Cherokee, Navajo, Lakota, Shawnee, Inuktitut, Quechua, Nahuatl, and others. The first is certainly not a requirement according to the Seminole Nation, maybe you would like to inform their Council that they’re doing it wrong. As for the second, there are a lot more members of the Cheyenne Nation than speakers of Tsėhésenėstsestȯtse. Again, you may wish to take that up with their Council but I doubt it would be well received. “I hate it when people claim ‘they are X’ as a shorthand for ‘one of their ancestors was X’” I agree with, but “no true Native American” fallacies? Stick 'em where the Sun don’t shine. > [@bump](#): > > Auburn hair, freckles, pasty white skin, and grew up in Arkansas. It would be absurd, and probably not a little bit offensive to some, if he was to claim that he’s hispanic. … Sooo… my redheaded cousin is not Hispanic, whereas her raven-haired, tans-from-looking-out-a-window brother is? I’m sure they’ll be happy, if somewhat surprised, to hear it, given their differring politics. If your friend is not culturally Hispanic, then he’s not Hispanic, but for the twentymillionth time, that’s got nothing to do with looks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=8)