# I pit my fellow whiteys who think they are Native American **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686 "2014-09-16T20:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/161 "2014-09-22T04:10:04Z")
The “[Baby Veronica](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptive_Couple_v._Baby_Girl)” case a couple of years ago was a good example of when white people (the dad was 3/256 Cherokee, but an enrolled member of Cherokee Nation) use their very tenuous connections to a powerful Native American agency to try and get their way. Perhaps not a politically correct statement to make, but it rather irked me to hear them carrying on about how poor Baby Veronica would be denied her rich, cultural heritage if she were raised by white people. 3/512s Cherokee. She’s fully HALF Hispanic though, and nobody was waxing poetic about the injustice of her not getting to embrace THAT side of her genetic heritage! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/162 "2014-09-22T04:47:03Z")
If the Dad is a member of the Cherokee nation, he’s 100% Cherokee. It’s not a genetic heritage, it’s a culture. Hispanic is also a culture, not a genetic heritage. And, unlike Cherokee, it is not one whose transmission is specifically protected by laws attempting to correct the baby stealing cases of the past. American laws are full of special cases, if you want all cultural heritages to get equal protection start writing to your representatives. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/163 "2014-09-22T05:27:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If the Dad is a member of the Cherokee nation, he’s 100% Cherokee. It’s not a genetic heritage, it’s a culture. Exactly! If a tribe accepts someone as a tribal member, they’re a tribal member, irrespective of their genetic make-up. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/164 "2014-09-22T11:18:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Red hair can also be caused by [albinism](http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask67). Also by a [nutritional deficiency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwashiorkor). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/165 "2014-09-22T11:29:32Z")
> [@Dunkelheit](#): > > I also had a few youth workers in my greening project who were Metis, which is apparently a separate identity from the rest of the First Nations. I don’t know if they make a distinction between those whose ancestors were half French and those who were half Scottish. All those I met in Winnipeg identified as half French, and were very proud of both halves. They also would experience significant discrimination from their own, if they didn’t look ‘native enough’. One of my workers had light hair, blue eyes and freckles, and said he got a lot of shit for it from other Metis, accusing him of pretending. As I understand it the Metis uprising of 1867 (Red River Rebellion) was the closest thing Canada has had to a Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/166 "2014-09-22T14:28:07Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > … Sooo… my redheaded cousin is not Hispanic, whereas her raven-haired, tans-from-looking-out-a-window brother is? I’m sure they’ll be happy, if somewhat surprised, to hear it, given their differring politics. If your friend is not culturally Hispanic, then he’s not Hispanic, but for the twentymillionth time, that’s got nothing to do with looks. No… I was only pointing out that he doesn’t look the least bit Hispanic (Mexican, to be exact), and nor is he culturally any more Mexican than I am, or any other white Texans are. And I realize that genetics are a funny thing; a girl I had the hots for in college was of completely Mexican descent, but she ended up with really fair skin, auburn hair, and if I remember right, green eyes. You might not have known she was hispanic had you not known her. So for the purposes of discussion in this thread, if we’re accepting that culture = ethnicity, where exactly does a character like Navin Johnson in “The Jerk” fall? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/167 "2014-09-22T14:49:28Z")
Hispanic is not Mexican and although most Mexicans are mestisos not all are. Or rather some are more “mestiso” than others. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/168 "2014-09-22T15:41:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And I realize that genetics are a funny thing; a girl I had the hots for in college was of completely Mexican descent, but she ended up with really fair skin, auburn hair, and if I remember right, green eyes. You might not have known she was hispanic had you not known her. Which part of THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HISPANIC LOOKS are you having such problems with? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/169 "2014-09-22T16:01:39Z")
We collect lots of demographic data where I work. There’s a page for recording Ethnicity & Race. [ul] [li]_Ethnicity_ is Hispanic or non-Hispanic. [/li] [li]_Race_ has 29 options; people fill in their own data & may check as many boxes as they like.[/li][/ul] And “whiteys” claiming they are Native American have never annoyed me… ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/170 "2014-09-22T17:44:43Z")
Hubby is 1/4 Metis, so daughter is partially Aboriginal (Metis are excluded by the term “First Nations” as are Denes). Grandpa’s family were from the Duck Lake, Sask reservation and have a long, sad history and a lot of alcoholism. Daughter doesn’t really look it, which I claim is due to her whiter than white Mom’s side (Dutch, English, French and Scottish) diluting it. So far, she is quite proud of her mixed ancestry, I hope it stays that way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/171 "2014-09-22T17:49:25Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Which part of > > THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HISPANIC LOOKS > > are you having such problems with? Indeed. All that “Hispanic” means is that you come from a Spanish speaking country. I know it’s hard for some people to believe, but there are actually Hispanics who don’t look like your typical mestiso from Mexico. I would suspect, for example, that there are very few mestisos in, say, Spain. Plus much of South American, like Argentina, was settled by Europeans who, like those in the US, did not mix all that much with the native population. And there are lots and lots of Hispanics who are black (or, more correctly, have enough African admixture that they would be considered black by most Americans). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/172 "2014-09-22T19:29:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Which part of > > THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HISPANIC LOOKS > > are you having such problems with? This is silly. We’re quibbling about what the word Hispanic means, and that’s not the point I was trying to make. Part of the problem is that the words used are very ambiguous- there’s not a word for “broadly looks like the vast majority of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Salvadorans and Nicaraguans”, and Hispanic gets used as a substitute. In the girl from college’s case, it was even more interesting, because her parents looked very much like what Mexican people typically look like in Texas- brown skin, brown eyes, black hair, etc… but she didn’t. My point was that you can have people of one group who don’t necessarily fit the pattern for that group, just like you can have people who aren’t part of the group that might look like someone from the group. You can’t judge a book by its cover and all that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/173 "2014-09-22T19:31:25Z")
I once met a Norwegian who had dark hair and brown eyes. News at 11. Anyway, those Mexicans are sneaky. You never know what the kids are going to look like. It’s almost as if they were a mixed race people!! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/174 "2014-09-22T20:10:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I once met a Norwegian who had dark hair and brown eyes. 😃 Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/175 "2014-09-23T07:23:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > As I understand it the Metis uprising of 1867 (Red River Rebellion) was the closest thing Canada has had to a Civil War. I believe so. Louis Riel is a fairly significant folk hero in Manitoba. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/176 "2014-09-23T10:43:07Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Which part of > > THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HISPANIC LOOKS > > are you having such problems with? Tell that to the masses, most people are very loose in their language use and uninterested in pedantry. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/177 "2014-09-23T15:46:48Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So for the purposes of discussion in this thread, if we’re accepting that culture = ethnicity, where exactly does a character like Navin Johnson in “The Jerk” fall? Note his instinctive reaction to _Crazy Rhythm_. He’s genetically white, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/178 "2014-09-23T16:21:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > This is silly. We’re quibbling about what the word Hispanic means, and that’s not the point I was trying to make. Part of the problem is that the words used are very ambiguous- there’s not a word for “broadly looks like the vast majority of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Salvadorans and Nicaraguans”, and Hispanic gets used as a substitute. The word **John Mace** gave you, mestizo. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/179 "2014-09-23T17:51:53Z")
Once when the teacher in one of my high school classes had to do one of those “ethnic background” surveys, there was a kid in the class who was Spanish, as in “He’s from Barcelona.” He raised his hand for the “white European” category, not the “Hispanic” one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686/180 "2014-09-23T18:03:33Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The word **John Mace** gave you, mestizo. Like it or not, in modern English usage, the term “Hispanic” typically is used as a catch-all term to describe Latin american immigrants and Americans of Latin american descent. Under that rubric, Spaniards would likely not be called “Hispanic”- they’d be considered “Europeans”, in the same way that Spanish-speaking Filipinos would be considered “Asian”, and Spanish-speaking natives of Equatorial Guinea would be considered “African”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-fellow-whiteys-who-think-they-are-native-american/698686.md?page=10)