# I pit my liberary's ebooks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041 "2013-03-15T21:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/21 "2013-03-16T17:50:55Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Whereas an ebook is a computer file. It can be copied over and over. If 50 people want to download it all at once, it’s physically possible. It SHOULD be one of the huge upsides of checking out ebooks from the library; the files could always be there, ready to download, with no waiting list. But licensing rules limit it to being checked out one copy at a time, as if it were a physical book. It already works that way when you **buy** a copy of an ebook (e.g. from Amazon): the files are there, ready to download, for as many people as want to purchase the book. The issue that you’d need to resolve for libraries is how to handle payment/reimbursement in the case of all those unlimited downloadable copies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/22 "2013-03-16T18:37:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Since each ebook is a particular licensed copy, there are only so many to go around just like regular books. In fact, I can get the hard copy version before I can ever get an available ebook. So what’s the effin’ point? The same as the point of having regular books, without the shipping costs and shelf space requirements. Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/23 "2013-03-16T19:34:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Since each ebook is a particular licensed copy, there are only so many to go around just like regular books. In fact, I can get the hard copy version before I can ever get an available ebook. So what’s the effin’ point? I’d guess that it comes down to resources and demand. More library patrons want dead tree books than audio or electronic books, so the libraries spend more money on dead tree books. At my last job, 4 of us were readers and regular library patrons. I was the only one who had an e-reader. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/24 "2013-03-16T22:04:04Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The issue that you’d need to resolve for libraries is how to handle payment/reimbursement in the case of all those unlimited downloadable copies. Right. Do the patrons of digital library services want to pay more, either in fees or taxes? Or do they want to stiff the writers and steal from the future? ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/25 "2013-03-17T22:08:15Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I have a favorite audiobook reader (Scott Brick), and 90% of his stuff is WMA. [hijack] I’m a huge Scott Brick fan. Narrators just don’t get any better than him. I like him so much I shot him an email asking him to keep narrating (I’m hoping he’ll do the third of The Passage trilogy), and he emailed me back the next day. Good guy. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/26 "2013-03-18T02:31:05Z")
Although it’s correct that a digital file costs nothing to copy, a library has to pay a license fee for each digital copy of an e-book. The concept is similar to licensing copies of software for use in an office environment. The more computers (or terminals) on which the software is installed, the more the company has to pay to the software company. FWIW, the Overdrive Console software allows the library patron to place an e-book on hirs\* waiting list. The software will email the patron once the book becomes available. In my city’s public library system the patron has four days in which to check out/download the book once s/he receives the email. \*“his or her” ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/27 "2013-03-18T02:59:59Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > [hijack] I’m a huge Scott Brick fan. Narrators just don’t get any better than him. I like him so much I shot him an email asking him to keep narrating (I’m hoping he’ll do the third of The Passage trilogy), and he emailed me back the next day. Good guy. [/hijack] Continues the hijack. I actually touched hands with my favorite narrator. She didn’t look or sound like I thought she would, but she was so nice. I send fan letters often. Not in “OMG, you are so great that I want to have your babies”, but talking about the content. Almost every one replies. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/28 "2013-03-18T03:27:54Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Although it’s correct that a digital file costs nothing to copy, a library has to pay a license fee for each digital copy of an e-book. No, they don’t. They do pay license fees, but it’s not on a per copy basis. That’s part of what leads to the problem. If they could just buy the copies they need at some bulk rate, it would be trivial to make sure the more popular books always had a license free for a patron to use. Instead, they are literally bought like books. You can only loan out a certain number of copies at once, simulating buying that many copies. You can only loan them out so many times, simulating the effects of wear and tear. You can only loan them out for a certain period of time, simulating the effects of time. It’s this nonsense that makes me not want to get digital copies at a library. It’s not that I don’t want authors to be compensated (even though I think most would do better to self-publish to a website and use advertising to get compensation). I just don’t see the point in digital books being just as troublesome as regular books. I honestly would prefer a Netflix model for ebooks. I’d pay a monthly fee to have unlimited access to a wide variety of both popular and less popular books. My books only go away if I fail to pay the subscription. It would be worth the fee to avoid the hassles of using an online library. (And to avoid the questionable legality of other sites. Exactly the same reason I like Netflix.) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/29 "2013-03-18T03:59:43Z")
[QUOTE=BigT] No, they don’t. They do pay license fees, but it’s not on a per copy basis… {snip} [/QUOTE] Apparently, the nice lady at the library conducting the “how to use your e-reader to download copies of our e-books” class told me all wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/30 "2013-03-18T04:03:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Since each ebook is a particular licensed copy, there are only so many to go around just like regular books. In fact, I can get the hard copy version before I can ever get an available ebook. So what’s the effin’ point? The point for me is that I don’t get funny looks when I’m checking out ebooks in my pajamas on a Sunday morning. And before my library had ebooks, I’d often have to wait for a physical copy of a popular book anyway. I keep a gigantic “wish list” on my library account, so if I need to get a book but I don’t have the time or the inclination to browse, I have a handy group of books that I’m interested in. Many of them are checked out at any given time, but there are always enough available that I can get something I’m in the mood to read. > [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > My bitch isn’t with the books (ebook or audio book) but with the fact that the library lets patrons check out up to 15 at a time, for 3 weeks. It’s way to easy to download all 15, and then either not “return” (check in and delete) if you finish early, or just not get to it in the 21 days. > > I would bet that if the number was dropped to 8 items at a time, almost no one would actually miss out on anything, and a whole lot more books would be available at any one time. Our library, like **Jenaroph** ’s, allows 6 checkouts at a time, and the default time is 14 days (although you _can_ change your default to 7 or 21 days if you want to). I typically only check out 3 or 4 books at a time, and I only get that many because I want to be able to choose what to read depending on my mood at the time. > [@Donna\_Lange](#): > > Might not be the most legal thing in the world, but I wonder if you can just up and copy and paste the e book or just mess with it in a text file and just “return” it later. Frankly, the whole idea of borrowing “E” anything from a public library seems strange to me. If I get busier than I thought I would and realize that my loan(s) will expire before I finish my book(s), I’ll just make it a point not to turn my Kindle’s wireless on until I’m done. The book stays on the device until it gets a signal from Amazon to expire. My complaint is with the recommendation feature from my library. I’ve recommended several books, and the library emails me when they’re available…but when I go to check them out, they’re available only as audiobooks or in EPUB format. I wish there was a way to limit requests to only the Kindle format so they’d quit breaking my little heart when I get a notification a book is available, but I can’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/31 "2013-03-18T04:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The point for me is that I don’t get funny looks when I’m checking out ebooks in my pajamas on a Sunday morning. They give you even funnier looks if you AREN’T wearing your jammies or anything. Seriously, though, that’s the biggest plus AND minus about ebooks. You can get them at 3 AM, at home, no matter what you’re wearing…or not wearing. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/32 "2013-03-18T04:35:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, they don’t. They do pay license fees, but it’s not on a per copy basis. That’s part of what leads to the problem. If they could just buy the copies they need at some bulk rate, it would be trivial to make sure the more popular books always had a license free for a patron to use. Instead, they are literally bought like books. > > You can only loan out a certain number of copies at once, simulating buying that many copies. You can only loan them out so many times, simulating the effects of wear and tear. You can only loan them out for a certain period of time, simulating the effects of time. What makes you say the fees aren’t on a per copy basis? They _are_ literally bought like books- and if the library has paid the license fee for 4 copies, then four people can have that book checked out at any given time. If I’m understanding you correctly, you think that if all four copies are checked out and patron #5 comes along , the library should have some way to automatically pay a license fee for a fifth copy? Dear God no! Because then my library would be paying license fees for a few hundred ( or thousand) copies each of the top ten or twenty or fifty most popular books _and there would be nothing else_. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/33 "2013-03-18T04:40:26Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > [hijack] I’m a huge Scott Brick fan. Narrators just don’t get any better than him. I like him so much I shot him an email asking him to keep narrating (I’m hoping he’ll do the third of The Passage trilogy), and he emailed me back the next day. Good guy. [/hijack] Wow, good to know. Since Frank Muller stopped narrating, Scott is my favorite, too. But watch out – I think he’ll read anything they put in front of him. I tried listening to a couple of D-List Books (one was a Clive Cussler) that were laughably bad (made even weirder by being so nicely voiced). He adds a\* lot\* to Brad Meltzer’s books. The protagonists are often young guys caught up in some kind of deception that they’re too naive to deal with, and Brick captures their optimism and vulnerability perfectly. Try _The Zero Game_ or _The Millionaires,_ especially if you don’t like the conspiracy flavor of some of his later work. And of course listen to him read _Ender’s Game_, and then _Ender’s Shadow_.\* \*a ‘side-quel’ – same story, same time frame, but from another character’s perspective _(Bean’s!)._ I’ve successfully searched our Digital Library for ‘Scott Brick’, then limited the search by ‘mp3 audiobook’. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/34 "2013-03-18T04:41:38Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > My complaint is with the recommendation feature from my library. I’ve recommended several books, and the library emails me when they’re available…but when I go to check them out, they’re available only as audiobooks or in EPUB format. I wish there was a way to limit requests to only the Kindle format so they’d quit breaking my little heart when I get a notification a book is available, but I can’t read it. Do you mean when you recommend a book or when you request one? Because when I request a book, Overdrive lets me know which formats it is available in and I can filter a search by language, format, etc ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/35 "2013-03-18T08:10:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, they don’t. They do pay license fees, but it’s not on a per copy basis. Yeah, you’re wrong. Ebooks are absolutely purchased on a per-copy basis. With OverDrive (the system everyone is talking about in this thread and who is far and away the biggest ebook vendor for libraries), this is the only way to do it. There is no bulk purchase or site license option. Except for public domain books, which are “always available” through the OverDrive system. > [@](#): > > That’s part of what leads to the problem. If they could just buy the copies they need at some bulk rate, it would be trivial to make sure the more popular books always had a license free for a patron to use. Instead, they are literally bought like books. So you’re not a dumbass, you do know that ebooks are purchased just the same as regular books. But I agree with you, negotiating a bulk rate or site license is exactly how library ebooks should be handled. Unfortunately, the publishers aren’t there yet. But I imagine it’s only a matter of time. > [@](#): > > You can only loan out a certain number of copies at once, simulating buying that many copies. You can only loan them out so many times, simulating the effects of wear and tear. You can only loan them out for a certain period of time, simulating the effects of time. [We talked about this a year ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=645813&highlight=library) While many publishers are putting limits on the number of circulations an ebook can have before it expires, the numbers they’ve chosen are, for the most part, pretty comparable to paper books. Do I wish there no limits? Sure. But it’s not a terrible system right now, just unsatisfactory. > [@](#): > > I honestly would prefer a Netflix model for ebooks. I’d pay a monthly fee to have unlimited access to a wide variety of both popular and less popular books. My books only go away if I fail to pay the subscription. Amazon offers just such a service. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/36 "2013-03-18T09:18:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Amazon offers just such a service. It does? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/37 "2013-03-18T12:25:19Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > It does? Yup. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=lp\_mem\_help?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200757120](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=lp_mem_help?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200757120) ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/38 "2013-03-18T12:25:37Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > It does? Sort of… if you have Amazon Prime and an actual Kindle brand Kindle they have some books you can read for free. Whether you’ll be impressed with the selection or not seems to vary depending on what you read, but I personally wasn’t. I also own a Nook, though, so it was academic for me. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/39 "2013-03-18T12:48:06Z")
My only complaint is with the selection of ebooks. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve searched for a specific title only to find it isn’t available through Overdrive at all. I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere, but our “branch” of Overdrive doesn’t even have Gone with the Wind or Watership Down available…and I’d think ANY library, physical or otherwise, would have those! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041/40 "2013-03-18T13:42:56Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Do you mean when you recommend a book or when you request one? Because when I request a book, Overdrive lets me know which formats it is available in and I can filter a search by language, format, etc > [@GreasyJack](#): > > Sort of… if you have Amazon Prime and an actual Kindle brand Kindle they have some books you can read for free. Whether you’ll be impressed with the selection or not seems to vary depending on what you read, but I personally wasn’t. I also own a Nook, though, so it was academic for me. I do have Amazon Prime, and a Kindle, and I didn’t find a single book in the lending library I wanted to read. Having said that, I searched it via my Kindle (which has a rather unwieldy search mechanism) rather than the Amazon webpage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-my-liberarys-ebooks/653041.md?page=3)